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      CommentAuthorbilld
    • CommentTimeJul 30th 2009 edited
     
    I'm becoming a believer in energy gels. The last couple of long rides I've done (~60 miles each) have gone really well. I was using gels (Gu chocolate if that matters) every 45 minutes. I had energy all through the rides and I recovered quickly (a nice change given that I'm 45 years old). The problem is that I suffer from fructose malabsorption, so they give me a bit of IBS.

    Does anyone know of any gels that are made without fructose? I haven't had any luck finding any so far.

    I make my own energy drinks so that I can avoid fructose, but I wouldn't know how to make gels, not to mention have those nice convenient mylar (or whatever it is) packets that they come in. I'm thinking the dosage level is important (too much would spike the blood sugar a bit too much, too little would be ineffective) which also makes me a bit concerned about making my own.
    • CommentAuthorProtorio
    • CommentTimeJul 31st 2009
     
    I prefer an In-n-Out shake. But barring that, I'm an advocate of whole food on the trail: fruit, honey, and nuts....

    1. Honey Stinger packs (REI)
    2. Larabars - nuts and dates - no cereal!
    3. Fig bars (like in the bins at People's)
    4. Home-made peanut/cashew/almond butter sandwiches, cut up into little pieces.
    5. Baggie of dates (when in season)
    6. Make your own honey packs - use raw honey!

    (these might well contribute to the fructose problem...I don't know enough about it)

    I stay away from most artificial gels and cereal bars, myself. If you make your own, you can buy organic, raw, or fair trade stuff.
  1.  
    ^^^
    good call on the peanut butter sammich

    i usually pack a small baggie with whatever ive got at the house. last time it was almonds, jellybeans, and some miniature pretzles. the time before that was cashews, a hershy bar broken to little peices, and almonds.

    ive ived hammer gell and gu and all those but im not too hip on them.
    • CommentAuthorthom
    • CommentTimeJul 31st 2009
     
    The coffee my wife makes could probably be considered a gel.
    •  
      CommentAuthorbilld
    • CommentTimeJul 31st 2009 edited
     
    Most commercial gels get most of their carbs from maltodextrin, which is a glucose chain polymer. It's a complex carb but it breaks down fairly quickly and easily for a complex carb. It doesn't spike your blood sugar as sharply as straight glucose/dextrose. This is mainly what I'm looking for.

    Honey is more than 1/3rd fructose. It also contains a small amount of sucrose, which itself is 50% fructose.

    I can't find what the carbs in Larabars are.

    Not sure about figs. I'd bet on fructose though.

    Peanuts are loaded with fat, and they don't have the same complex carbs. I'm not a fan of cashews and dislike almonds.

    Dates contain fructose. Not sure how much.

    Jellybeans are likely to be sweetened with sucrose, which is 50% fructose.

    Even for people who do not have digestive issues with fructose, the body can't process large amounts of fructose into energy. It really has no place in an energy gel.
    •  
      CommentAuthorPaul
    • CommentTimeJul 31st 2009 edited
     
    Gu:
    Calories 100
    Calories from Fat 0
    % DV*
    Total Fat 0g 0%
    Saturated Fat 0g 0%
    Trans Fat 0g
    Sodium 55mg 2%
    Potassium 45mg 1%
    Total Carb 25g 8%
    Sugars 5g
    Protein 0g
    Packaging - foil wrap, frequently seen on the side of the road behind crabon/bright spandex (okay, that was a vent, I did a brutal loop over Lyons Valley Road this week and while suffering on my steel LHT, I saw a bunch of Gu wrappers next to the road and just assumed that the people suffering less, with bigger quads/calves and lighter bikes made the mess)
    Price - as much as they can get

    One medium banana:
    Calories 105
    Calories from Fat 4
    Total Fat 0g 0%
    Saturated Fat 0g 0%
    Cholesterol 0mg 0%
    Sodium 1mg 0%
    Potassium 422mg
    Total Carbohydrates 27g 9%
    Dietary Fiber 3g
    Sugars 14g
    Protein 1g
    Packaging - biodegradable
    Price, usually 25 cents or less.

    According to what I've read, bananas have some fructose, but can be used by many fructose intolerant people (non HFI).

    I'm not sure about the science, perhaps there is something in Gu that makes it available to the body faster but I am about your age and do at least one metric century length weekly and haven't started on the synthetic fuel yet. I am pretty slow, though-- maybe I should. I suspect, however, that below elite level athletes, the main difference is the profit margin.

    You may want to look into Clif, if you haven't already-- most of their products use rice syrup for carbs/sweetener rather than HFCS.
    • CommentAuthorthom
    • CommentTimeJul 31st 2009
     
    Bananas FTW!
    •  
      CommentAuthorbilld
    • CommentTimeJul 31st 2009 edited
     
    I'm allergic to bananas.

    Also, Gu uses straight fructose, not HFCS, which is typically only about 55% fructose.
    •  
      CommentAuthorVelo Cult
    • CommentTimeJul 31st 2009
     
    sensitive fellow huh?

    :face-smile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorbilld
    • CommentTimeJul 31st 2009 edited
     
    It's not fun being me. I have asthma and arthritis. People with asthma often have quite a few allergies and I'm no exception.
    •  
      CommentAuthorPaul
    • CommentTimeJul 31st 2009
     
    check out the ingredients in the non-fruit flavors:

    http://www.clifbar.com/food/products_shot_gel/
    •  
      CommentAuthorbilld
    • CommentTimeJul 31st 2009
     
    Those might work. Thanks. I'll try to track some down and try them.
    •  
      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeAug 4th 2009
     
    <blockquote><cite> thom:</cite>The coffee my wife makes could probably be considered a gel.</blockquote>

    I love coffee like that. Really.

    Also, in place of GU, how about honey? I've heard of people using it and it's pretty much a strait healthy no additive type of stuff.. I've been taking whole fruit and blending it up with honey for a few weeks now. No sugar dives or the like happening. Now, just to find a decent com-poster..
    •  
      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeAug 4th 2009
     
    <blockquote><cite> billd:</cite>It's not fun being me. I have asthma and arthritis. People with asthma often have quite a few allergies and I'm no exception.</blockquote>

    ahhh.. just makes things interesting, really! But you're riding, and that's what matters!


    I have problems too. I suffer from curmudgeon syndrome, irritable brain syndrome and also have an extremely low tolerance for ignoramus.

    My main medical issue is MPB, which has severally affected me in many ways, to the point I've had to change certain socialization habits, can not wear certain clothes, and began to become horribly addicted to watching before and after type infomercials on late nite TV.






























    MPB: Male :face-devil-grin: Pattern Baldness
    •  
      CommentAuthorbilld
    • CommentTimeAug 4th 2009 edited
     
    just makes things interesting, really! But you're riding, and that's what matters!
    Actually, while my health issues make riding harder than it might otherwise be, riding has helped both problems be less severe. Bicycling is good.

    in place of GU, how about honey?
    I'm sure it's fine if you don't have a significant fructose problem. Honey is about 39% fructose. That's better than cane sugar (sucrose, which is 50% fructose) or high fructose corn syrup (usually around 55% fructose) but it's still more than my bowels will handle in significant amounts.

    One Gu is normally not enough to give me IBS. Three definitely is. I've mostly been using them on long rides (>50 miles), and then every 45 minutes, so by three hours in or so, I start feeling the need to find a restroom. I've tried them on shorter rides (25-30 miles), doing only one for the ride and had no problem.

    Another thing with honey is how do you carry it and use it? One of the nice things about the gels it that they're easy to carry and easy to use while riding without making a big mess. I don't drop my wrappers in the road like some people. I put them in a jersey pocket and throw them in the trash at the first opportunity. I don't understand how that's difficult for some people.

    I'm going to try non-fruit Clif Bar Shots on the next long ride.
    •  
      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeAug 4th 2009
     
    <blockquote><cite> billd:</cite><blockquote>Another thing with honey is how do you carry it and use it? </blockquote>

    I used honey in a place it was super hot, and the only place to store things was cloth pockets, so sticky: not an option; totally understand the carry question. Target had these really cheap pop top containers. I'd squirt some in there with a pinch of salt, and simpy carry them that way. They were small, I think meant as shampoo containers for travel or something. Worked pretty good. But, YMMV, I suppose. I used A LOT of water with it though, part of that whole heat issue.
    • CommentAuthorProtorio
    • CommentTimeAug 4th 2009 edited
     
    I would walk away from "gels" altogether and just take a sandwich. Get off the bike at a nice spot, spend 8-10 quiet, peaceful minutes, and eat a sandwich. Brew tea if you have more time - there are plenty of small camp stoves and tiny gas canisters that will fit in a seat bag. A small picnic blanket won't take up too much room, either. Why not wool? That's my riding style, anyway - kind of "country riding" in tradition of Bobs/Retrogrouches/Freds (U.S.), randonneurs, (FR), and cyclotourists (UK). There's no fructose in the sandwich, so long as you don't use jam. Wrap it in wax paper that can be re-used. The paper might also come in handy during a mechanical fix.
    •  
      CommentAuthoril Pirati
    • CommentTimeAug 5th 2009
     
    .

    You can buy Gu in larger volume packages and they sell small, reuseable canisters. Probably not much more user friendly than the travel shampoo bottle, but sure to be more expensive.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRBjay
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2009
     
    Look into Hammer Nutrition. They're anti-OSE as reflected in their entire product line. Most ultra-distance riders rely on this product line for their fueling needs, and many centuries and double centuries stock it at all of their aid stations. Their most poplular products include Hammer Gel, Heed (a drink equivalent to the gel), Sustained Energy (a pancake batter-like consitency formulated as a liquid food) and Perpetuem (another liquid food). Check them out at www.hammernutrition.com
  2.  
    cocain.
    isonehellofadrug
    •  
      CommentAuthorbatmick
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd 2009
     
    I've also come to like the gels. GU is my drug of choice, especially the "espresso love" flavor. Just packs easier than bananas or sandwiches. Cliff shotblocks are also nice and a little easier to eat while riding. But I always make a stop or two for a coffee and some pastries. Gotta have a goal, right? But what about beans? Gives you that "second wind" for the final sprint :face-smile:
    image
    •  
      CommentAuthorbilld
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2013
     
    I did three Hammer gels on my last 50 miler. No problems. They appear to contain a small amount of fructose but only a very small amount.
    • CommentAuthorsynthetic
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2013
     
    no wonder why there are so many fat cyclists out there - buffet on the bike. I can ride 60 miles without need for fueling... you never hit anaerobic state unless you are doing the fiesta island TT when biking. So let fat be thy fuel...
    •  
      CommentAuthorPaul
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2013
     
    synthetic:no wonder why there are so many fat cyclists out there - buffet on the bike. I can ride 60 miles without need for fueling... you never hit anaerobic state unless you are doing the fiesta island TT when biking. So let fat be thy fuel...


    Actually, according to science and true elite endurance athletes, glycogen is your fuel -- in the diet of the best runners in the world, between 71 and 75 percent of calories came from carbs, with the remainder divided between fat and protein: http://rbgsocialclub.wordpress.com/2012/09/06/kenyas-elite-runners-a-study-on-the-diet-of-african-champions/
    • CommentAuthorsynthetic
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2013 edited
     
    ATP is your fuel but can be derived from fat or glycogen. Recent winner of the western states 100 trail run race is low carb. Many athletes and coaches are moving towards the fat for fuel movement, (Joe Friel, Simon Whifield (gold medal in triathlon)).
    As for the kenyans being the best runners, I suppose it depends on situation, for instance why hasnt any kenyan won the mt washington hill climb or badwater?
    We must remember that the kenyans also live off the land, so their diet will naturally be carb heavy, this diet is not optimal for an eskimo.
    • CommentAuthorShady John
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2013
     
    Prize for winning Mt. Washington run is $2000, while there is no monetary prize for winning Badwater. If you offered a sufficiently large prize, then a Kenyan would probably win (at least some of the time). At this point, I don't imagine the elite Kenyan runners are living off of the land.
    •  
      CommentAuthorPaul
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2013
     
    Shady John:Prize for winning Mt. Washington run is $2000, while there is no monetary prize for winning Badwater. If you offered a sufficiently large prize, then a Kenyan would probably win (at least some of the time). At this point, I don't imagine the elite Kenyan runners are living off of the land.


    Thanks John. I was going to have a hard time addressing that one politely. They also wear clothes and drive cars. As of 2011, the urban population in Kenya was approximately 10 million.

    synthetic: Recent winner of the western states 100 trail run race is low carb.


    This is anecdotal (www.dictionary.com.) Perhaps more dispositive -- Scott Jurek, the all-time Western States Champion (he won it seven time in a row) is vegan and eats plenty of carbs. He is also the former Badwater record holder.

    The Tarahumaras (look them up) exist primarily on carbs. I have no idea wtf "Eskimos" (generally an offensive term now) have to do with anything.

    An olympic distance triathlon is not an endurance event. The bike leg is typically 25 miles.

    Finally, the guy you called "ignorant" on the San Diego Vegans group during another discussion about this subject (right before you got kicked off) is not only an accomplished ultra-endurance athlete but a Registered Dietitian with a Masters degree.
    • CommentAuthorsynthetic
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2013
     
    I am not saying kenyans are behind the times, what I am saying is their food staples are still based off their local land to maintain the same macronutrient ratios

    "Kenyan runners tend to eat a limited variety of foods, and that was certainly the case with these elite athletes. Most of their nutrients came from vegetable sources, and the “staple” edibles were bread, boiled rice, poached potatoes, boiled porridge, cabbage, kidney beans and ugali (a well-cooked, corn-meal paste that’s molded into balls and dipped into other foods for flavoring).

    Meat (primarily beef) was eaten just four times a week in fairly small amounts (about 100 grams — 3.5 ounces a day). A fair amount of tea with milk and sugar was imbibed on a daily basis"

    Minimally processed food and locally grown. Do you see any CytoSport in that diet??

    A for the vegan group I was kicked off because I am anti pseudo food. There are many people out there deemed certified but their knowledge is dated - in the computer world you need to be certified every 2 years for certain technologies but in food, medicine one you are certified it lasts for life, at the moment. There are many teachings we are finding to be reversed. Most tudies were funded by biased corporations - gatorade etc.
    •  
      CommentAuthorbilld
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2013
     
    synthetic:no wonder why there are so many fat cyclists out there - buffet on the bike. I can ride 60 miles without need for fueling... you never hit anaerobic state unless you are doing the fiesta island TT when biking. So let fat be thy fuel...
    Sorry but for long rides, there's a big difference between when I take in food and when I don't. Without caloric intake, I usually start hitting that wall at around 40 miles or so. With caloric intake, I can delay it.

    It also depends upon how fast I'm trying to go. I've been trying to go fast lately.
    • CommentAuthorPetteri
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2013 edited
     
    billd:
    synthetic:no wonder why there are so many fat cyclists out there - buffet on the bike. I can ride 60 miles without need for fueling... you never hit anaerobic state unless you are doing the fiesta island TT when biking. So let fat be thy fuel...
    Sorry but for long rides, there's a big difference between when I take in food and when I don't. Without caloric intake, I usually start hitting that wall at around 40 miles or so. With caloric intake, I can delay it.

    Yeah, agreed - if you like to bonk be my quest but I like to avoid it when possible. I find that at a semi-decent pace I need something more than water for rides longer than two hours or so. I doubt anybody is going to replenish all the energy they burn on a bike by eating during the ride, at least if you're not pottering around at 10mph...

    I may still be carrying an extra pound or dozen but it sure isn't from drinking the odd bottle of Gatorade or eating a Clif bar on rides! Can't be bothered with gels on a bike though, but might give them a try for longer runs if my knee holds up.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSmorg
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2013
     
    synthetic:
    in the computer world you need to be certified every 2 years for certain technologies but in food, medicine one you are certified it lasts for life, at the moment.


    I don't know much about diet, but the passage quoted is not true; in medicine, at least. Doctors, nurses, med techs, at least, have to complete 24 continuing education credits every two years to keep our license updated. If you visit a doctor office or a lab, look for the certificates on the wall. They'll have stickers on them, each bearing the year the certificate was last updated. If you drop off the CME units for more than 5 yrs or so (well, for med techs, at least. I don't know about MDs and RNs), you'll have to take re-certification test.
    • CommentAuthorsynthetic
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2013
     
    RN and MD does not need a recert
    •  
      CommentAuthorbilld
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2013 edited
     
    Tried a new one today: EFS Liquid Shots.

    http://www.firstendurance.com/nutrition/efs-liquid-shot.html

    Contains dextrose and sucrose, but apparently not enough sucrose to give me IBS. Also, calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium, chloride, L-glutamine, leucine, iso-leucine and valine.

    I was doing a little bit every so often. Each flask was probably divided into about 3 or 4 shots I took along the ride.

    I had just finished my second flask before the bottom of the climb up Torrey Pines (outside the park) just before the 50 mile mark today, having done a fairly fast 50 miles for me in spite of having started off the day climbing Soledad Mtn Rd from Garnett to the cross and following that with La Jolla Shores before heading up the coast. I set a new personal record up Torrey for all of the Strava segments I've matched on that route. There was no hint of bonking after 50 miles. There usually is with me if I don't take on calories during the ride.

    A bit on the pricey side so I probably won't be making a habit of these but for special rides they are my new favorite.