SD Bike Commuter - San Diego Bike-o-Rama Fri, 24 May 2013 01:08:10 -0700 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.1.9 San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31900#Comment_31900 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31900#Comment_31900 Sat, 28 May 2011 15:11:32 -0700 t.e.d San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31902#Comment_31902 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31902#Comment_31902 Sat, 28 May 2011 15:27:09 -0700 Sam San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31915#Comment_31915 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31915#Comment_31915 Sat, 28 May 2011 16:58:11 -0700 Sigurd San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31927#Comment_31927 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31927#Comment_31927 Sat, 28 May 2011 20:53:27 -0700 markphilips
found this on Ecovelo's blog
]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31938#Comment_31938 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31938#Comment_31938 Sun, 29 May 2011 09:27:23 -0700 Sigurd markphilips:... use your helmet......or, if you rock toe clips, your shoe.]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31946#Comment_31946 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31946#Comment_31946 Sun, 29 May 2011 10:20:30 -0700 HMeins tag farm house cafe]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31949#Comment_31949 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31949#Comment_31949 Sun, 29 May 2011 10:50:19 -0700 t.e.d San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31950#Comment_31950 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31950#Comment_31950 Sun, 29 May 2011 11:01:38 -0700 Sam
]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31951#Comment_31951 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31951#Comment_31951 Sun, 29 May 2011 11:16:55 -0700 HMeins Sigurd:San Diego cyclists now have their own "Tag-o-Rama" game!

A tag isn't really an actual tag - it is just a picture of your bike in an interesting or well-known location, perhaps with some hints if you think seekers need it. Members here will figure out where the tag is, and go out to take a picture in the same location, with their own bike in a similar position. The finder is then the new "it", and he gets to place the next tag: Continue ad infinitum!

Here's a custom Google Map over most of the tag locations to date.

For now, check out the rules:

#1: If you're "it", find somewhere relatively easy to place a tag - the game is about getting people out on their bikes (see #2), not about Googling: Somewhere scenic, well known or for some reason special or interesting will do. Take a picture (no file or recycled photos, or Google Street View, allowed - again, this is about riding your bike!) of your bike in the tag location. Post on SD BIkecommuter.com (you will need an account with a hosting site such as Photobucket, Picasa or Flickr to host your photo).

#2 The first finder (the one who posts a picture of his bike in the correct location) is the new "it", If you are not first (you have been "Bruced"!), post your photo, anyways (see #3).

#3: As "it", you have 48 hours to place a new tag. If you don't, the honor of being "it" transfers to the second finder/poster. In short, if you don't have the time or inclination to place a tag, don't grab it in the first place!

#4: You need to ride your bicycle to and fro, and include it in your tag photo!

#5: To keep the tag moving, pls. limit yourself to the City of San Diego: Even then, placing a tag in San Ysidro or Rancho Bernardo may be funny, but not fun!

#5: No whining!

#6 (edit): The photo needs to be physically posted to the board - a URL to it is not sufficient for a catch. A new "tag" photo has to have been taken after your "claim" photo - no file photos of any kind allowed!

Get it? If not, read this thread for how it is done, and then ask here!]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31952#Comment_31952 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31952#Comment_31952 Sun, 29 May 2011 11:28:33 -0700 Sigurd
I think the rule about when to reveal the tag location is written as a clarification in a subsequent post, and reiterated many times throughout the thread. I will, however, edit the rules in Post #1 so that this clarification is written into the rules.

Now - waiting to see the new tag (and find out where the old one was!).]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31959#Comment_31959 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31959#Comment_31959 Sun, 29 May 2011 16:21:32 -0700 t.e.d San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31976#Comment_31976 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31976#Comment_31976 Sun, 29 May 2011 21:01:38 -0700 Shady John
Another thought: I understand the requirement to take a separate ride for the new tag--it gets people out on their bikes more. However, this often means that there is a 1 day lag between "find" and "new tag." If we allow the new tag to be from the same ride, then it will go up at the same time as the "find", meaning no lag. An additional upside is that this can give a bit of a clue to those who would otherwise be clueless. For example, if the "find" is the fountain in Balboa Park, and the new tag goes up at the same time, at least I know the new tag is accessible on the same ride as the fountain in Balboa Park. Yes, this could be seen as a downside, but it could be up to whoever is "it" to decide how to post the next tag--from the same ride or from a different ride.

Of course this is not my thread, and I'll continue to obey the rules-- I just think it could be even better.

Shady]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31977#Comment_31977 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31977#Comment_31977 Sun, 29 May 2011 21:10:05 -0700 thom
My understanding of the "don't post the previous location until you post the new tag" rule is that it makes sure the game is fair for everyone -- that is, every potential player has to figure out the location for her/himself.]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31978#Comment_31978 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31978#Comment_31978 Sun, 29 May 2011 21:13:18 -0700 t.e.d San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31979#Comment_31979 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31979#Comment_31979 Sun, 29 May 2011 21:19:24 -0700 Sigurd ShadyGaga: I can see that revealing the location could spoil the tag in case somehow the first person to post the find is disqualified. But this is not likely to be common.This is exactly the purpose of having a system with tag "backups" (Bruces) - in case the original claimer fails to meet the requirements of the game - notably by failing to post a new tag within the 48hr. limit - the first Bruce (and so on) advances to tag owner by default. The idea is that all Bruces have identical information about the location of the tag as the first claimer.

I don't disagree with you about the down time when we are waiting for a new tag - it would be nice to have this reduced or eliminated somehow (see below).

ShadyGaga:...it could be up to whoever is "it" to decide how to post the next tag--from the same ride or from a different ride.
There is no requirement that the new tag photo is taken on a separate bike ride: The photo could be taken on the same ride, just later in the day then the claim photo: You could claim a tag at the Velodrome and ride straight up to the Fountain at BP and take a new picture, and post both images concurrently (but with the new tag in a post after the claim photo post: There is no requirement that you go home, eat lunch, take a nap, do the laundry (you get the idea!), and then go out again to place a new tag at some much later time (or day).]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31981#Comment_31981 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31981#Comment_31981 Sun, 29 May 2011 21:21:37 -0700 Sigurd
Earlier in this thread we discussed a "hyper variation" (about one third down the page) version of the game: In this variation a tag is still considered live until a new tag is placed: This means that a Brucer could become the new tag owner if he is able to post a new tag before the first claimer does. The hyper variation would be much faster paced and would just about eliminate the waiting time between tags, IMO.

Downsides to the hyper variation include that it further tilts the game to the advantage of those with super-phones, and might discourage quality tag locations in face of the time pressure to post the new tag in order to "win" it.]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31990#Comment_31990 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31990#Comment_31990 Mon, 30 May 2011 00:06:18 -0700 Shady John
Another option to cut down on the waiting would be to have more than one active tag. The cleanest way to do this would probably be to have separate threads for each active tag (SD-A thread, SD-B thread, etc), but that means having to check each individual thread (which is the situation now for people who are following both the SD and north county coastal tag-o-rama threads).

I think the hyper option could work. I think you'll still get quality tags, but each tag will tend to be spatially closer to its predecessor than in the current game variant. To negate the smartphone advantage, we could ask people to complete their rides before posting (on the honor system). This would have the added benefit of cutting out that 20 minute mid-ride downtime while fighting with the phone (at least for me).

Shady]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31994#Comment_31994 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31994#Comment_31994 Mon, 30 May 2011 10:54:54 -0700 Sigurd
I think that there is plenty of demand for this type of activity, as evidenced by the fact there have been as much as 200 page views for every tag (~60 tags and ~11,000 page views) placed. We could meet this demand by modifying or tweaking the rules of this game, run a "dual game" (A and B) set up, or establish new variations (e.g., hyper variation, permanent variation - both discussed in detail above).

When we started the game, the requirement was for re-tagging within 72 hours of a claim. This was quickly reduced to 48 hours, with no apparent issue for anybody. In order to meet the pent up demand, I will with effect from the next claim modify the rules to a 24 hour limit, and furthermore strongly encourage same-day tagging: Shouldn't be too hard as one is out on one's bike with a camera, anyways!

#3: "As "it", you have 24 hours to place a new tag. If you don't, the honor of being "it" transfers to the second finder/poster. It is highly encouraged to post the new tag on the day of your claim.

ShadyGaga:Of course this is not my thread...

It's everybody's thread!]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31995#Comment_31995 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31995#Comment_31995 Mon, 30 May 2011 11:41:40 -0700 Sam
Whatever rules discourage giving fancypants phone users an edge, I'm completely in favor of it.]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31996#Comment_31996 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=31996#Comment_31996 Mon, 30 May 2011 12:56:24 -0700 t.e.d San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32000#Comment_32000 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32000#Comment_32000 Mon, 30 May 2011 13:32:28 -0700 Old Knotty Buoy
Just sayin'.

OKB
:face-devil-grin:]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32001#Comment_32001 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32001#Comment_32001 Mon, 30 May 2011 13:51:47 -0700 Sigurd
You can still use whatever phone you want and from wherever you are capable of posting from. This means that those with phones made from wood and running on steam (such as mine!) need to be a little smarter and ride a little faster!
:face-monkey:]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32006#Comment_32006 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32006#Comment_32006 Mon, 30 May 2011 15:10:17 -0700 HMeins mockingbird 2011 011

clue: this bike has no brakes

Edit: The last one (ducks) was in the alley behind the Farm House Cafe on Adams Ave. west of Mississippi St. I saw an example of such an addition after the fact earlier in the thread, so don't relegate me, ref! I was pushed over the centerline, but I came right back in without advancing my position.]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32022#Comment_32022 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32022#Comment_32022 Mon, 30 May 2011 21:13:36 -0700 AlanKHG wpstoll:mockingbird 2011 011

clue: this bike has no brakes
Must be at the hipster bar, then!]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32027#Comment_32027 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32027#Comment_32027 Mon, 30 May 2011 22:03:15 -0700 markphilips San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32031#Comment_32031 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32031#Comment_32031 Tue, 31 May 2011 06:57:22 -0700 Sigurd AlanKHG:
wpstoll:clue: this bike has no brakes
Must be at the hipster bar, then!Must be somewhere on 30th...

:face-devil-grin:


markphilips:I know where the current tag is located but I don't think I can get to that location until Tuesday afternoon.:face-crying:
I was planning for tomorrow, but will almost certainly get Bruced, then.]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32045#Comment_32045 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32045#Comment_32045 Tue, 31 May 2011 13:15:49 -0700 AmandaLovesOkapis
I'm still waiting for the combination of good timing and a location I recognize, but every time I ride I'm keeping an eye out for potential new tags for once I finally catch one :)]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32047#Comment_32047 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32047#Comment_32047 Tue, 31 May 2011 13:56:27 -0700 t.e.d San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32048#Comment_32048 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32048#Comment_32048 Tue, 31 May 2011 14:25:54 -0700 HMeins
1. post tag
2. within 24 hours post new tag with the wording "Last one was..." underneath the photo?

Establishing a template for future posts should discourage undesirable behaviors.]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32057#Comment_32057 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32057#Comment_32057 Tue, 31 May 2011 16:53:28 -0700 t.e.d San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32059#Comment_32059 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32059#Comment_32059 Tue, 31 May 2011 17:36:19 -0700 Sigurd wpstoll:Looking back through this thread there appears to be some inconsistency. The only thing consistent is the inconsistency with which we have revealed tag locations: Too early, too late, not at all - you name it. No big deal if we don't do it right every time - we are just trying to get better at it, a little at a time - that's all.

wpstoll:1. post tag
2. within 24 hours post new tag with the wording "Last one was..." underneath the photo?
That's pretty much how we would like it do be done!]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32062#Comment_32062 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32062#Comment_32062 Tue, 31 May 2011 17:48:15 -0700 markphilips


Taken later that evening at the Velodrome.
]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32071#Comment_32071 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32071#Comment_32071 Tue, 31 May 2011 19:30:28 -0700 HMeins San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32093#Comment_32093 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32093#Comment_32093 Tue, 31 May 2011 23:15:44 -0700 markphilips
If you have Mozzila Firefox browser, right click on the picture, then select "view image," then CTRL++ to zoom in.

Notice the bright lights just above the trees? It makes it easier to hit balls back and forth in the evening.

That black speck on the steep hill is a cyclist trailing the red car

]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32114#Comment_32114 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32114#Comment_32114 Wed, 01 Jun 2011 11:05:58 -0700 bossvoss When I arrived, Sigurd was already there to show me best place to take the shot (his bike on the right, mine on the left). Even though he beat me there, he was quite the gentleman and offered that who ever posted first won.

Photobucket

(Forgive my crappy cell phone camera. My next tag will be with a real camera - but that means I have to get home first to upload it. Due to Bike-o-rama, my digital camera has now become an essential piece of bike gear)

Dave Voss]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32117#Comment_32117 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32117#Comment_32117 Wed, 01 Jun 2011 12:14:40 -0700 markphilips
I enjoy climbing that trail as it is the only technical/ rocky/ switchback hill that I love to tackle.]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32118#Comment_32118 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32118#Comment_32118 Wed, 01 Jun 2011 12:34:30 -0700 Sigurd


Just as I was setting up for my photo shoot, pretty confident that I would be the winner, this - oh, horrors! - other rider came up the trail. It was immediately clear to both of us what errand the other was here in. So we introduced, agreed that the first to post would be the winner, chatted for awhile, and went on our separate ways. Nice to meet you, bossvoss!

This must be the third time or so that two riders have arrived at a tag location at the same time - the more the merrier, as it proves the game's popularity.

I am glad I didn't read Mark's edited hints - I thought I knew where the lights came from , but with his additional info about balls or whatnot I would have started to doubt that I knew this location after all.]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32129#Comment_32129 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32129#Comment_32129 Wed, 01 Jun 2011 17:40:33 -0700 Shapps San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32132#Comment_32132 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32132#Comment_32132 Wed, 01 Jun 2011 18:31:49 -0700 bossvoss
Here's the new one:

Photobucket

Dave Voss]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32156#Comment_32156 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32156#Comment_32156 Thu, 02 Jun 2011 11:44:04 -0700 markphilips
]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32164#Comment_32164 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32164#Comment_32164 Thu, 02 Jun 2011 13:10:59 -0700 markphilips


Last post was the "Childhood totem" located at the intersection of Grape and Harbor drive along the MUP.]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32169#Comment_32169 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32169#Comment_32169 Thu, 02 Jun 2011 18:56:37 -0700 thom San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32196#Comment_32196 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32196#Comment_32196 Fri, 03 Jun 2011 14:07:05 -0700 bikingbill San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32197#Comment_32197 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32197#Comment_32197 Fri, 03 Jun 2011 14:18:28 -0700 thom San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32198#Comment_32198 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32198#Comment_32198 Fri, 03 Jun 2011 14:32:54 -0700 Sigurd :face-devil-grin:]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32199#Comment_32199 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32199#Comment_32199 Fri, 03 Jun 2011 14:41:18 -0700 bikingbill thom:Simultaneously?

Didn't get that from your post. That IS impressive.]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32201#Comment_32201 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32201#Comment_32201 Fri, 03 Jun 2011 15:06:04 -0700 markphilips San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32202#Comment_32202 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32202#Comment_32202 Fri, 03 Jun 2011 15:10:03 -0700 thom
I think we should name this maneuver after Mark, but I can't think of anything clever right now.]]> San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32204#Comment_32204 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32204#Comment_32204 Fri, 03 Jun 2011 15:52:40 -0700 bikingbill San Diego Bike-o-Rama http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32205#Comment_32205 http://sdbikecommuter.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=524&Focus=32205#Comment_32205 Fri, 03 Jun 2011 15:55:18 -0700 markphilips