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- CommentAuthorsd_mike
- CommentTimeJan 26th 2012
As an aside, the road to the west of Kearny Villa Road is an old alignment of US 395 (before 1947 or so).
- CommentAuthorHMeins
- CommentTimeJan 26th 2012
That's an even better historical reason to allow bicycle access there. Whom do we petition? Susan Davis?
- CommentAuthorSigurd
- CommentTimeJan 26th 2012
Cecil:It's horrible. I cut through to University (which sucks too) to avoid that mess and then go over the Trader Joe's Bridge to get back. Not a very elegant solution.
There are plenty sucky sections of road in San Diego, and I would be perfectly happy to put up with Washington between 5th and Park (really, between 5th and ECB), too, if it weren't for the fact that the alternatives are either sucky, too, (Uni), sucky and slow (Robinson) or just plain slow (Vermont ped bridge).
- CommentAuthorSigurd
- CommentTimeJan 28th 2012 edited
Stopped for a red light on Uni and 4th in Hillcrest westbound today. A lady in her early 20s was waiting when I got to the line: She appeared to be an inexperienced cyclist - brand new department store bike and despite going straight, she was so close to the curb that she was standing in a puddle of brackish water that had gathered in the gutter. She looked at me, we exchanged greetings. She turned again to speak with me - this is how the conversation went:

She: "Are bikes supposed to, like, drive on the road with cars?"
I (not sure if I had heard her right or if she was joking): "Uhmm -- sure!"
She: "Really?"
I: "Yes, you have the full right to ride on the road with cars"
She: "Cuz this man in a car just yelled at me to get the f*$k off the road!"
I: You have the right - he was trying to intimidate you"

The light turned green and the two us took off on our separate ways.

I think I am perfectly capable of riding Victor Charlie style with the best of them, so I am not worried about by myself. However, how will we entice new riders, like the young lady I met this afternoon, onto the roads without any facility encouragement whatsoever? And if they are brave enough to take a new bike out to ride Uni in the area between Vermont and Goldfinch, they are facing the risk of being be yelled at by random drivers?

We all know that each of us are safer on the road with more cyclists around, so we need to get new riders out on the road: Victor Charlie might work perfectly fine for many experienced cyclists, myself included, but does not at all welcome new cyclists.

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I traveled Pac Hwy between Taylor and the SD River Bikepath Southside today, and found that the bikelanes had been repainted: Northbound, it seems that the new lanes are a lot wider than they used to be, with large buffer zones on both sides of the lane: I don't know if they took out one auto lane northbound or removed a center turn lane to find this extra room for the bike lane - but whatever they did, it is much better!

I did not travel north of the river on Pac Hwy or south of Taylor, so I don't know if this repaint is part of a larger upgrade of Pach Hwy for cyclists: However, it seemed like the bike lanes had been repainted across the river bridge and beyond, too, and that the bike lane was at least several inches wider than what I remember it to have been in the past.

Whoever was responsible for this repaint - thank you! Of course, the road needs badly to be resurfaced here, but that's another story! And - the 45mph speed limit is - well - utter Bravo Sierra!

Here's what it looks like, looking north from just north of the Taylor/Pac Hwy Intersection (click):

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Part of Adams Ave. between Texas-ish and Park has been repaved: It is not a full-width repave - only a section of the westbound lane, and of poor quality at that: I wonder if this is the resurfacing job that's been on the agenda, or if what we see now is only a prep-job.
- CommentAuthorsvelocity
- CommentTimeJan 29th 2012
The PCH bike lane repaint is only a week or two old and a very nice upgrade indeed! I know they took out the diagonal parking just north of Rosecrans to accommodate the new bike lane width.

Speaking of newly paved roads...the city just repaved Pershing and I certainly hope they take the opportunity to paint a proper lane and somehow slow the speed down a bit. That is a very fast road.
- CommentAuthorGeoff
- CommentTimeJan 29th 2012
As you pointed out, it's not so much the infrastructure, but the general roaditude that can be the make-or-break factor for new riders. Someone who has been cycling their entire life (riding to grade school, biking during college, using recreational paths on weekends) has the cycling skills to cope with traffic, but not the experience in the roadway to feel comfortable crossing three lanes from a bike lane to make a left turn lane. I think this is a generation gap that won't get solved now. Riders today are demonstrating for the next generation that it's normal to ride a bike in traffic. That physical example, combined with, say, early education on the rules of the road, would be step two. However, as long as there is an ant-cycling generation, in cars, brazen enough to yell at another person doing something completely legal, we won't get the full house we need to be "accepted". They will be extinguished with time (and, because they don't get enough exercise, they'll probably be "off the road of life" before us).

Sigurd, thank you for being a positive role model for this young lady, so that she saw and heard something counter to what she experienced moments before. I know it's just a matter of being in the right place and the right time, but it hopefully made a difference. Oh, and communal conversations with other people while riding is just one other advantage over being in a car.
- CommentAuthorbilld
- CommentTimeJan 29th 2012 edited
I DO feel comfortable crossing three lanes to get into a left turn lane. It's training and experience.

The biggest problem with vehicular cycling is that people don't know it or in some cases they think that they know it but because they only have a basic explanation and haven't really done the training or studying, they don't really understand it. Getting people to take the class or read the books is not easy. People hate studying.

We need to get it into school P.E. curriculums at maybe the 4th grade level or so. A refresher should be a part of driver's training. Knowing how to interact with traffic is a must for bicycling as transportation. Facilities don't and never will go everywhere. This is even true in Amsterdam and Copenhagen which are not as spread out as San Diego and much much flatter.

I was recently having an argument with an anti-V.C. extremist and he was contending that V.C. is dangerous because hit-from-behind crashes are responsible for largest number of the fatalities for bicyclists. What he couldn't grasp though I and others tried to explain it to him is that it's still a very small percentage of overall crashes. Getting hit from behind happens relatively rarely. That means that it is low risk. He also couldn't grasp that there is no real data on whether cyclists who are hit behind are adherents of V.C. or people who were hit from behind while keeping far right. I don't recall ever reading a story of a bicyclist getting hit while riding in a straight line in the middle of the lane. Most of the hit from behind stories I have read have been of bicyclists getting hit in bike lanes or on shoulders or reported to have swerved at the last second. Often it was at night and they had no lights or reflectors. Many stories don't include information on lane positioning. I remember one crossing a freeway off ramp. He was also trying to argue that dooring collisions aren't that dangerous because they account for a very small percentage of fatalities. Again, he couldn't grasp the fact that dooring collisions are common and at more than maybe 10-12mph they usually involve serious injury. They have a much greater likelihood of happening and seriously hurting you. That makes them dangerous. He tried to argue that he's more worried about dying than being seriously injured. I'm worried about both. Later in the postings, he admitted that he was bad at math. That did not surprise me. People who are bad at math tend to have difficulty understanding statistical risk.
- CommentAuthorGeoff
- CommentTimeJan 29th 2012 edited
I think you're making the same point I am: bike commuters that have experience feel more comfortable in traffic. However, when you're starting out on a bike in the road, as opposed to the sidewalk or separated paths, it feels like the rules you learned in a car no longer apply. I'm just as much as a believer in cold stats as you, but it doesn't stop that horn from honking at me on a narrow road, regardless of where I ride. I can be as educated as I want, but it doesn't teach Speedy The Wonder Douche behind me to slow down and grow some patience. Some areas can be made MUCH BETTER through design. That kind of effect doesn't take a generation in order to receive a payoff.
As for education, you mean like this:
“We’re putting sharrows on every route that’s marked in the city, we are educating every kid in elementary and middle school on bike education last year and this year,” he says.

Or for impossible infrastructure spending, you may mean like this:
At the time of his hiring, the city had put together about $12 million for bicycle planning and infrastructure, combining funds from the L.A. County Metropolitan Transportation Authority, Caltrans, and grants from the state and federal governments. With this money in hand, the leadership in Long Beach wanted to do something big....They’re now up to about $20 million raised, and only about $5 million of that has been spent [emphasis mine] says Gandy. Though his two-year stint has since ended, Gandy’s still working for the city as a consultant, among other bike-related consulting gigs, helping to plot out how all this money can be spent to make the city a better place to bike. Future plans include about 15 miles of bike boulevards and a 500-bike sharing system that Gandy hopes to see roll out by fall.

Yup, can't see San Diego spending ALL THAT MONEY to keep up with that wacko hippy commune called Long Beach... Hey, when are we going to get that new stadium downtown?
- CommentAuthorbilld
- CommentTimeJan 30th 2012 edited
mileco:I think you're making the same point I am: bike commuters that have experience feel more comfortable in traffic. However, when you're starting out on a bike in the road, as opposed to the sidewalk or separated paths, it feels like the rules you learned in a car no longer apply. I'm just as much as a believer in cold stats as you, but it doesn't stop that horn from honking at me on a narrow road, regardless of where I ride. I can be as educated as I want, but it doesn't teach Speedy The Wonder Douche behind me to slow down and grow some patience. Some areas can be made MUCH BETTER through design. That kind of effect doesn't take a generation in order to receive a payoff.
Speedy The Wonder Douche does slow down or change lanes. He/she just gets really angry about it. One of the things that I have noticed since I got serious and consistent about applying V.C. techniques is that they really affect driver behavior. The BIG difference is that I am NEVER ignored anymore. Being ignored in the road scares me 10,000 times more than Speedy The Wonder Douche throwing a hissyfit. Even the rare close passes that I experience now are by drivers whose attention is 100% focused on me. That scares me dramatically less than somebody who's playing with their cell phone and thinking: "I think there's enough room to pass" even when there isn't. When I'm riding in the middle of the lane, someone playing with their cell phone goes "WTF is that cyclist doing in the middle of the lane?!" and they forget about their cell phone and pay attention to me. They don't for one second think that there's enough room to pass because it's not even close to a possibility.
As for education, you mean like this:
“We’re putting sharrows on every route that’s marked in the city, we are educating every kid in elementary and middle school on bike education last year and this year,” he says.
Real education will have a ripple effect. Kids will tell their parents and older siblings. I don't know if the above is real education or not. I suspect not but we can always hope. In any case, right now the only people talking about bicyclist's right to the road are cycling advocates, and almost nobody outside of the cycling advocacy community is listening.
Or for impossible infrastructure spending, you may mean like this:
At the time of his hiring, the city had put together about $12 million for bicycle planning and infrastructure, combining funds from the L.A. County Metropolitan Transportation Authority, Caltrans, and grants from the state and federal governments. With this money in hand, the leadership in Long Beach wanted to do something big....They’re now up to about $20 million raised, and only about $5 million of that has been spent [emphasis mine] says Gandy. Though his two-year stint has since ended, Gandy’s still working for the city as a consultant, among other bike-related consulting gigs, helping to plot out how all this money can be spent to make the city a better place to bike. Future plans include about 15 miles of bike boulevards and a 500-bike sharing system that Gandy hopes to see roll out by fall.

Yup, can't see San Diego spending ALL THAT MONEY to keep up with that wacko hippy commune called Long Beach... Hey, when are we going to get that new stadium downtown?
I never said anything about impossible infrastructure spending. Are you not replying to me? In any case, $20 million isn't going to give us facilities like Amsterdam or Copenhagen. $20 billion wouldn't do that. I am not against facilities when they are well designed and don't result in having to make large detours or have lots of extra stops or share space with pedestrians. By all means work on projects. In the mean time, we still have to get where we are going. We'll always need to get where we are going. That's my point. Education can be done now and for relatively little cost. Facilities take time and cost a lot of money and will never go everywhere. We need education whether we have facilities or not. If we teach all kids how to ride safely in the road, then that information will become common knowledge everywhere within a few years at most.

It is possible to do both. I dislike the "all or nothing" attitude that some people seem to have.
- CommentAuthorSerge2
- CommentTimeJan 31st 2012
Sigurd:

I think I am perfectly capable of riding Victor Charlie style with the best of them, so I am not worried about by myself. However, how will we entice new riders, like the young lady I met this afternoon, onto the roads without any facility encouragement whatsoever? And if they are brave enough to take a new bike out to ride Uni in the area between Vermont and Goldfinch, they are facing the risk of being be yelled at by random drivers?

We all know that each of us are safer on the road with more cyclists around, so we need to get new riders out on the road: Victor Charlie might work perfectly fine for many experienced cyclists, myself included, but does not at all welcome new cyclists.

I think the key to learning to drive a bike is to follow the same steps as learning to drive a car. Start in a parking lot, then graduate to slow/quiet neighborhood streets. Jumping onto University without even knowing what the rules are is not a good idea, whether there are facilities there or not.

So I think the solution is to get these ideas out there:
1. Bicyclists have the same rights and responsibilities as drivers of vehicles (CVC 21200)
2. If you're nervous/uncomfortable about riding in traffic, start on quiet/slow streets and learn to manage traffic
3. If you're still nervous, take a class or read a book (or both) to help build up your knowledge, skills and confidence
What's the point of enticing a novice into riding on a busy street with a facility, just to leave them in a situation that is beyond their capabilities (which is what usually happens)?
- CommentAuthorbossvoss
- CommentTimeJan 31st 2012
Two unintended consequences of proper road positioning and Sharrows (were lots of cyclists are taking the middle of the lane position). The first I have encountered numerous times, the second was the first time. Both were experienced on Pacific St in Oceanside on Saturday morning:

1. When overtaking cars pass a cyclist who is taking the proper positing in the center of the lane, they very often ignore the cyclists coming the other way, who are in the middle of their lane. I think most of the time this is ignorance, but sometimes this is purposeful. In either case, it leads to a close pass on both sides (plus is very intimidating to the cyclists coming the other way to have a car barelling towards them and aren't sure whether they have been seen since the driver may be paying more attention to the cyclist they are passing then the one that is ahead of them). It could lead to newer cyclists to avoid taking the proper center lane position.

2. A mototrcyclists yells "get off the road" at me from two vehicles back. When the other vehicle turns right, he accelerates and does a very close pass without crossoing the line while I am in center positon of a narrow lane.

On #1, I sometimes move slightly to the right if I sense the car may be passing while cyclists are going the other way.

On #2, I have not figured out any way to handle this differently. Fortunately it was a onetime occurrence.
- CommentAuthordstone
- CommentTimeFeb 1st 2012 edited
Kathy had commented over in the "Bike Advocacy" thread but I thought the topic required mention here. If you haven't heard, the US House of Representatives introduced the surface transportation bill that is supposed to be a more permanent solution to the extensions the Congress has been passing to a bill that expired in 2009. It is pretty awful from the perspective of anyone born after 1950 (and for all you older bike advocates!), deeming, amongst other things, bicycle and other non-automobile-centric "accommodations" "optional". Even freight rail advocates are coming out against it for the language heavily slanted towards the trucking industry. The transportation advocacy blogs are on fire about the bill (the Senate version is less partisan and more intelligent, for what it's worth).

The bill is, in my very humble opinion, very backwards. Public transportation and cycling (in particular) reduce costs of infrastructure because of less wear and tear and more more efficient allocations of space (I am simplifying an very long argument here, so forgive me). Please consider talking to your Rep. (mine is Susan Davis, CA-53, which is probably also that of most folks living in the Uptown Mesa or SD proper, aside from Clairemont, I think). Here is the link Kathy had over in the other thread, for convenience.
- CommentAuthorSerge2
- CommentTimeFeb 1st 2012 edited
bossvoss:Two unintended consequences of proper road positioning and Sharrows (were lots of cyclists are taking the middle of the lane position). The first I have encountered numerous times, the second was the first time. Both were experienced on Pacific St in Oceanside on Saturday morning:

1. When overtaking cars pass a cyclist who is taking the proper positing in the center of the lane, they very often ignore the cyclists coming the other way, who are in the middle of their lane. I think most of the time this is ignorance, but sometimes this is purposeful. In either case, it leads to a close pass on both sides (plus is very intimidating to the cyclists coming the other way to have a car barelling towards them and aren't sure whether they have been seen since the driver may be paying more attention to the cyclist they are passing then the one that is ahead of them). It could lead to newer cyclists to avoid taking the proper center lane position.

2. A mototrcyclists yells "get off the road" at me from two vehicles back. When the other vehicle turns right, he accelerates and does a very close pass without crossoing the line while I am in center positon of a narrow lane.

On #1, I sometimes move slightly to the right if I sense the car may be passing while cyclists are going the other way.

On #2, I have not figured out any way to handle this differently. Fortunately it was a onetime occurrence.

I can think of two solutions:
1. Ignore these incidents. Proper positioning can greatly reduce but not eliminate close passes and aggressive driving. At least you know that you have been noticed... that's half the battle, isn't it?
2. Use a mirror and adjust your lateral position more often in response to subtle changes in traffic conditions. For example, in (1), adjust your position based on whether someone is approaching from behind and whether there is oncoming traffic (including another bicyclist). If there is no oncoming traffic, then, yes, move a bit right to accommodate and encourage passing.
  But if there is oncoming traffic, move left and maybe even use your left arm slow/stop signal to let them know you know they are there and that you are aware of the situation. As soon as the oncoming lane is clear, glance back over your right shoulder, and move right to invite them to pass now that it's safe. In (2), it's unclear what was happening earlier, but there again engage with those behind you, take into account the situation ahead, and temporarily move aside to accommodate/invite safe passing when appropriate. Let them know you're aware of them and working with them; don't let them think you're impeding them and oblivious to their presence
Serge
- CommentAuthormarkphilips
- CommentTimeFeb 1st 2012 edited
Roundabouts at Bressi Ranch in Carlsbad near Palomar Airport Rd. The residential area is a few minutes walk to the park, and town plaza with a Trader Joes. Saw several traffic calming infrastructure in this area that is only a few years old.

New bike lane on Roosevelt St and west of Carlsbad Village drive makes the car lane so narrow that motorists drive on the bike lane.
- CommentAuthorSam
- CommentTimeFeb 9th 2012
Pedestrian and cyclist counters installed in Del Mar
- CommentAuthorbikingbill
- CommentTimeFeb 9th 2012
I've ridden thru Bressi Ranch many times, typically on my way to Trader Joes.

Of course, I have to ride up El Furte to get home from there :face-devil-grin:
- CommentAuthorbilld
- CommentTimeFeb 9th 2012 edited
When I ride up the coast, I usually go north on Camino Del Mar but when I come back, I usually take the Coast/Stratford route. I'll have to stick with Camino Del Mar from now on.
- CommentAuthorsd_mike
- CommentTimeFeb 12th 2012
Bike lanes seem to be taking a while to be striped on Florida Dr in Balboa Park... I also noticed the speed limit is now 50mph, seems like it used to be 45. Not really pleased with that, it should be 35 or less.
- CommentAuthorPaul
- CommentTimeFeb 12th 2012
sd_mike:Bike lanes seem to be taking a while to be striped on Florida Dr in Balboa Park... I also noticed the speed limit is now 50mph, seems like it used to be 45. Not really pleased with that, it should be 35 or less.

As of last week, at least it had been marked for paint. It also seems bumpier now than before it was resurfaced.
I'm interested in the speed issue. How do we look into the historical data to see if they changed it? I saw evidence of another major crash into the fence just after the left onto Pershing last week. Large bumper parts still embedded in the fence. This happens fairly often.
- CommentAuthorsd_mike
- CommentTimeFeb 12th 2012
From what I saw, the resurfacing was just that... not a full AC overlay. More like an oil or tar seal.
- CommentAuthorbilld
- CommentTimeFeb 13th 2012
- CommentAuthorsvelocity
- CommentTimeFeb 13th 2012
This is interesting...

http://nacto.org/cities-for-cycling/design-guide/
- CommentAuthormarkphilips
- CommentTimeFeb 13th 2012
It will be interesting to see what developers build in the next 10 -20 years: it has to be walkable and livable and close proximity to amenities. I don't mind them "not" talking about bicycling but that is (I hope) given consideration.

'Smart Growth' gaining traction in downturn
Changing demographics prompting new attitudes toward cities, suburbs

Part of what we’ve learned is where we have really overbuilt. Virtually every place around the country forms a concentric circle. Moving out, values have been dropping. You see center areas and walkable areas holding values best, and large-lot, drive-only places are losing value.

Read the U-T article online here: http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/feb/13/smart-growth-gaining-traction-even-downturnh/
- CommentAuthorStephan
- CommentTimeFeb 21st 2012
Change is happening in the City of Carlsbad. And it looks to be for the good. Read all about it here.
- CommentAuthormarkphilips
- CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2012
Nice. So glad that Bryan Jones is working for the city of Carlsbad.
- CommentAuthorSigurd
- CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2012
I notice that the restriping appears complete on the repaved section of Adams Ave in the area of the Texas St. overpass -- except for the sharrows! Hopefully, sharrow marking is done by a separate team and that this work will be complete soon, too.
- CommentAuthorHMeins
- CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2012
markphilips:Nice. So glad that Bryan Jones is working for the city of Carlsbad.

I thought he drowned in 1969 under suspicious circumstances in the swimming pool at A.A. Milne's "Pooh House," which he had bought and was renovating at the time.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/celebrity/brian_jones/index.html

Oh, not THAT Brian Jones!
- CommentAuthorHMeins
- CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2012
So, bike lanes are finally in place on Murphy Canyon Rd. south of Aero Drive. Unfortunately, they were striped over completely unridable pavement, unless one is riding a full suspension MTB. Mark my words, a hothead driver speeding to stop at the metered signal on the on ramp to southbound I-15 is going to use that bike lane as provocation to road rage a southbound cyclist taking the lane to avoid the potholed pavement south of Stonecrest Blvd. With my luck, I will be the first victim.

The city just can't seem to get it right.
- CommentAuthorHMeins
- CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2012
I spoke with Tom Landre about the problem and he plans to go out there and have a look at it. SDCBC should weigh in on this as well, but last I heard Andy Hanshaw was out of town.
- CommentAuthorStephan
- CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2012
wpstoll:I spoke with Tom Landre about the problem and he plans to go out there and have a look at it. SDCBC should weigh in on this as well, but last I heard Andy Hanshaw was out of town.

Andy is back in town, and in any case, you can always reach him at execdir@sdcbc.org or go to the Contact Us page at www.sdcbc.org. I'm sure wpstoll is, but just as a reminder for others, if you want the Coalition to work on your behalf, please be sure to support that work with your membership.
- CommentAuthorHMeins
- CommentTimeFeb 24th 2012 edited
Just received an e-mail from Jake at the City's Bicycle Program:

"I visited the street with my supervisor Tom on Wednesday and we agree, the street is terrible and a hazard to cyclist. I’ve called our Streets division and put in a service request to resurface it for bike facility safety. This will rate the street with a priority higher and get it resurfaced sooner. Please let me know if you have any other concerns.

Thanks!

Jake Aquino

Bicycle Program

Transportation and Stormwater Department

City of San Diego

Phone: 619.533.3195"

It seems wasteful of time and resources to stripe a bike lane, then resurface the pavement and re-stripe the lane.
- CommentAuthorPacMUle
- CommentTimeFeb 27th 2012
HAZZAAAAA!!!! bike lanes are being striped along Ruffin Rd.... FINALLY! saw them last friday night from the end of KVR down to around Balboa i think... looks like they had some temp no parking signs further down so i may be even further along by now... i suppose i will see it tonight.
- CommentAuthormarkphilips
- CommentTimeMar 4th 2012
Seen in Paso Robles near a new mall strip.
- CommentAuthordstone
- CommentTimeMar 6th 2012
I read an article about both the merits and negative effects of the interstate system recently. It was mostly old news, but I happened to learn that in an interesting number of cases intra-city interstates were routed directly through thriving African-American neighborhoods. Moreover, Eisenhower actually opposed the construction of interstates in dense urban areas:

But Eisenhower never intended that the Interstates be built through densely populated cities. A memorandum of a 1960 meeting in the Oval Office, available in the archives of Eisenhower’s presidency, makes this crystal-clear:
“[The President] went on to say that the matter of running Interstate routes through the congested parts of the cities was entirely against his original concept and wishes; that he never anticipated that the program would turn out this way . . . and that he was certainly not aware of any concept of using the program to build up an extensive intra-city route network as part of the program he sponsored. He added that those who had not advised him that such was being done, and those who steered the program in such a direction, had not followed his wishes.”
The Secretary of Commerce and head of the Federal Highway Administration were in the room.
- CommentAuthorPacMUle
- CommentTimeMar 6th 2012
Ruffin Rd is complete! looks very nice too... the paint is so thick you can feel it when yo ride across the lil guy on a bike stencil, so they should be good for a long time :)
- CommentAuthorOld Knotty Buoy
- CommentTimeMar 7th 2012
The Rose Creek Bridge is coming along and should be in action in a month or two according to one of the construction guys. Let's hope the weather stays fair and they can "bring it home" with some nice landscaping and detailed finish work.

Rose Creek Bridge: March 07, 2012:

OKB
- CommentAuthorSerge2
- CommentTimeMar 7th 2012
Old Knotty Buoy:The Rose Creek Bridge is coming along and should be in action in a month or two according to one of the construction guys. Let's hope the weather stays fair and they can "bring it home" with some nice landscaping and detailed finish work.

Rose Creek Bridge: March 07, 2012:

OKB

That's great. I wonder what's the deal with that island in the middle of the path. Is there a branch that somehow connects to the existing Rose Creek path going north?

Here is how it used to look... from google street view.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=mission+bay&hl=en&ll=32.798357,-117.219765&spn=0.00257,0.003259&sll=32.798356,-117.219765&sspn=0.002583,0.003259&hnear=Mission+Bay&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=32.798388,-117.219621&panoid=sJ8d5iEupVfrakvbCUsndg&cbp=12,252.17,,0,7.7&source=gplus-ogsb
- CommentAuthorGeoff
- CommentTimeMar 7th 2012
Since it's at the end of the road from Mission Bay Drive, there is a likelihood of vehicles trying to continue along the path. The island physically prevents this. Yes, I believe there are people stupid enough to try to drive on this bridge. Or, maybe I'm wrong, and the designer just wanted a nice place for planters.
- CommentAuthorbilld
- CommentTimeMar 7th 2012
Given the downhill from the bridge, I think that they better put some lights on that thing at night.
- CommentAuthorSerge2
- CommentTimeMar 7th 2012
Pop Quiz!

The diagram below is from Keri Caffrey of Commute Orlando/Cycling Savvy.

The bicyclist is on a cycle track adjacent to a main road, say a future El Cajon Blvd, and is about to cross a minor road. There are no stop signs or traffic signals on the main road at this intersection, but those on the minor road have stop signs.

The black arrows show the places the bicyclist needs to look for conflicting movements.
1. What direction is the driver of each (1-4) of those cars looking?
2. And where is his primary attention relative to the bicyclist?
3. What elements, fixed or moving, might obscure a driver's view of the bicyclist (and vice versa)?
4. Where might the cyclist ride instead in order to have fewer places to look for conflicts, and to be more likely to be noticed by the drivers in Cars 1-4?
- CommentAuthorHans
- CommentTimeMar 8th 2012
Since cars 1 and 3 are waiting at stop signs for the other four cars to drive through the intersection (car 1 looking right at me, as I am the oncoming traffic), car 2 is waiting for oncoming traffic to clear, and truck 4 has been eying the right turn, yet the view has been obstructed by the bicycle... I'd say the bicycle is in the optimum place. The lanes appear rather narrow, and doesn't have a shoulder to leave an emergency "out". I would rather look over to make eye contact with the driver of the truck, than to hope the truck sees (in between sips of Starbucks) the 18"wide rear profile of my bike.
I'd be so happy that the city installed that bike path, rather than have some car/truck driver not notice me, or swerve around me in tight surroundings. Especially since I'm already fatigued by wearing a backpack and not wearing a helmet.
That would be great if the future El Cajon Blvd. deleted the outside lane and installed a separated bike path. Let's work together to see it happen.

Good point.
- CommentAuthorSerge2
- CommentTimeMar 8th 2012 edited
Hans:car 2 is waiting for oncoming traffic to clear

Perhaps, or he might gun it. Same with car 3. They have to be watched.

Hans:truck 4 has been eying the right turn, yet the view has been obstructed by the bicycle... I'd say the bicycle is in the optimum place.

Truck 4 won't expect any traffic coming out of the side street on the side of the street he will be driving on - his concern is 3 and 2, and so that's where he's looking. He's likely to not notice the cyclist until it's too late, when he has already come around the corner and started crossing the crosswalk.
- CommentAuthorHMeins
- CommentTimeMar 8th 2012
This scenario played out recently in San Francisco, but it was a disabled pedestrian in the crosswalk, knocked down by a small bus.
- CommentAuthorGeoff
- CommentTimeMar 8th 2012
Truck 4 won't expect any traffic coming out of the side street on the side of the street he will be driving on - his concern is 3 and 2, and so that's where he's looking. He's likely to not notice the cyclist until it's too late, when he has already come around the corner and started crossing the crosswalk.

The grass seperation allows enough time for the truck to finish looking left (remember, he does NOT have a stop sign, and is therefore NOT looking to yield to #3 or #2), and then track where he is going (i.e. around the bend, and at the cyclist in the path). The bicycle is well enough ahead of him in this example that it would be part of his ordinary forward vision before reaching the intersection. As there is no traffic control for the bicycle, the cyclist should be going slow enough for a left shoulder check before entering the intersection. Because the truck has to slow for the intersection to execute a turn from a narrow lane to a narrow lane, he will be at a speed that can be safely judged (<20MPH) by the cyclist.

An example of this intersection is the entrance to the Coast Guard station where Harbor Bike Path crosses. Differences include unprotected left-turn lanes, wider lanes, (presumed) higher speed, more lanes for the through road, and the presence of stop signs for the bike path (universally ignored,and therfore insignificant). I know of no injury causing accidents in this location between bicycles and cars.
- CommentAuthorbikingbill
- CommentTimeMar 8th 2012
I think as in Holland, you need signals to control this intersection and separate signals for the bike.

AND NO RIGHT ON RED.
- CommentAuthorOld Knotty Buoy
- CommentTimeMar 9th 2012
Serge2:
Old Knotty Buoy:The Rose Creek Bridge is coming along and should be in action in a month or two according to one of the construction guys. Let's hope the weather stays fair and they can "bring it home" with some nice landscaping and detailed finish work.

Rose Creek Bridge: March 07, 2012:

OKB

That's great. I wonder what's the deal with that island in the middle of the path. Is there a branch that somehow connects to the existing Rose Creek path going north?

Serge2,

I had to think about this one. I don't think the split coming off the bridge is intended to lead to the existing north bound bike path between the golf course and the boat storage area. It's just part of the design I think. (I tried but failed to find any design drawings or notes on the internet, SD City or otherwise.) For travelers around the north side of Mission Bay, this link will be great. For users of the Rose Creek bike path, I think they will still have to use the existing, crumbling, narrow, twisting bike path between the golf course and the boat storage area.

Productive input is "so" useful at the end of construction. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Maybe the secretive bicycle elves quietly put their two cents worth into the design of this bridge. They may know something the public doesn't so we'll have to see how it's received and critiqued. I hope it works out well! I'm looking forward to using it often for rides around the Bay and beyond.

OKB
- CommentAuthorKathy
- CommentTimeMar 9th 2012
The island/planter is to prevent cars from driving on the bridge. They could have just put up a bunch of ugly posts, but I like the idea of an island better.
- CommentAuthorSerge2
- CommentTimeMar 11th 2012 edited
Kathy:The island/planter is to prevent cars from driving on the bridge. They could have just put up a bunch of ugly posts, but I like the idea of an island better.

I agree, but look out for Harleys!

In fact, I saw a couple of motorcycles on "our" north end of Sorrento Valley Rd a few weeks ago.

They were riding slowly.
- CommentAuthorsd_mike
- CommentTimeMar 12th 2012
Slowly or not... illegal and dangerous. What part of MOTOR VEHICLE and NO do they miss?
- CommentAuthorSerge2
- CommentTimeMar 13th 2012
sd_mike:Slowly or not... illegal and dangerous. What part of MOTOR VEHICLE and NO do they miss?

Certainly illegal, but dangerous?

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