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      CommentAuthoril Pirati
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2009
     
    Is anyone interested in doing some more intensive/distance type training/fitness rides? I’d like to do some group riding that moves at a good pace, and goes for a couple of hours, but isn’t all about racing each other around every bend and showing off your ultra-light, expensive, new carbon bits. If this sounds like something you’d be interested in, let me know. I’m thinking a 20ish mile ride on a weekday evening, and 40ish miles on Saturday mornings. 15-18 mph pace? Anyone?
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      CommentAuthorVelo Cult
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2009
     
    i'd love too. sounds awesome. but can't.......
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      CommentAuthorOBRIDER
    • CommentTimeApr 4th 2009
     
    Has anyone out there used any ankle weights for training rides?
    • CommentAuthorrkarre
    • CommentTimeApr 6th 2009 edited
     
    il Pirati -

    If you are interested in riding up in North County, you are welcome to join my friend and me on one of our morning rides. We ride nearly every morning from UCSD area and, though we wear lycra or wool, we are not training for races but for touring and FUN. Let me know if your interested in that sometime. The Sorrento Valley Coaster station is an ideal starting spot if you live downtown and want to skip the traffic to get to the empty roads.
    • CommentAuthorSam
    • CommentTimeDec 22nd 2013
     
    I'd like to work on my cadence next year as I'd like to do some rando rides and maybe take a nap or two on the 300 or 600k ones. I'm generally super lazy and really opposed to riding faster than I do and too cheap to invest in things like spin classes or a trainer. How does someone like me step it up? Is there such a thing as easing in? What's a good first step for someone like me? According to svelocity, endurance is not an issue with me. Any tips on easing in to stepping up my pace?

    Thank you.
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      CommentAuthorSmorg
    • CommentTimeDec 22nd 2013
     
    Hey Sam! Aside from doing hill repeats (sprinting the top bit each time), going riding with faster gals has worked best for me in getting me to get comfy riding faster in a hurry. :o) There's a group up in Carlsbad called Team Fun that I've been riding up to ride with on Saturdays. They break into 3 groups. I usually hang with the intermediate (cruising at around 15 mph), but sometimes I'll get spunky and try to hang with the advanced group (they do 20+ mph on the flat). I get dropped about 20-25 miles in but it's still mighty fun. :o)
    • CommentAuthorerik
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2013
     
    I might be down for some relaxed training rides. Of course, my new commute means I might be doing 18 miles on a weekday evening already... Definitely in for Saturdays though.
    • CommentAuthorsynthetic
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2013 edited
     
    Sam:I'd like to work on my cadence next year as I'd like to do some rando rides and maybe take a nap or two on the 300 or 600k ones. I'm generally super lazy and really opposed to riding faster than I do and too cheap to invest in things like spin classes or a trainer. How does someone like me step it up? Is there such a thing as easing in? What's a good first step for someone like me? According to svelocity, endurance is not an issue with me. Any tips on easing in to stepping up my pace?

    Thank you.


    damnit who talked you into being a cadence rider! Moment Cycle is forming a female team for 2014, and they train the cabrillo tide pools.
    I suppose your best investment would be a cadence sensor, that can be found for 20$.
    People bust on me for riding big gear at 80rpm, but why am I passing them out? It comes down to muscle fiber build pretty much. Aside from purchasing speed (gearing,positioning, etc) the greatest level of fitness achieved will be climbing hills. IMHO cadence probably matters more on group rides where you are drafting each other, but you are not doing this on rando rides. Going to be hard to increase cadence without getting clip shoes, but after riding to san fran i wouldnt do that again.... you unclip (stop lights) so much debris collects, that you wont be able to clip in, and riding like that hurts the knees big time.
    • CommentAuthorShady John
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2013
     
    By "cadence" you mean "riding faster," I believe. Or do you mean spinning higher RPM at the crank? There are all sorts of training systems out there to build speed/strength, but you don't need to hire anybody or follow any particular system. The basic idea is to work out on a consistent basis, and push yourself to ride faster/harder on these workouts. Choose the system that you are most comfortable with, or is most convenient, or that motivates you to keep going. It that means riding with a group, then do that. If it means hill repeats at the tidepools, then do that. One idea you might not hear a lot of on this forum is to do some running. 30-45 min run at moderate pace is a very efficient cardio workout, especially if you throw in some intervals. But plenty of extremely fit and fast cyclists never leave the bike for their training.
    •  
      CommentAuthorPaul
    • CommentTimeDec 24th 2013 edited
     
    Grandescunt aucta labore

    A higher cadence (pedal rpms) is more efficient for climbing and uses the body's aerobic capacity rather than just leg strength. Grinding big gears is fine for a paleo meathead type riding a short time trial but it's not an efficient way to ride longer distances (science!) The best way to improve your cadence is to improve your cadence - cadence intervals at high rpms, repeated. Some kind of foot retention will improve cadence - the back side of the stroke is lost without it (Grant P is full of shit - just take a trainer class with Individual Leg Training and you'll feel the back of the stroke.)

    Improved cadence makes you more efficient but it must be combined with strength to gain speed. As Smorg said, hill repeats and chasing faster people do this. Strength training requires putting the muscles under stress in order to improve them. No pain, no gain. Cyclists fetishize suffering for a reason.

    There is a reason to improve speed before attempting a brevet. A few mph is the difference between a comfortable day on the bike and a DNF slog. A 20 hour 300k is not going to be any fun as the night goes on and the weather gets cold.

    Not going clipless for touring is nonsense (big surprise) - thousands of riders tour the country every year, and the majority of them are clipped in. Not to mention the majority of mountain bikers and every single person who races cyclocross - all of whom step in a lot of dirt and debris and clip back in without issue. Perhaps using the proper cleats (SPD or Crank Bros) is the correct answer, although I've never had a problem doing extremely long brevets in road cleats (again, as do the majority of participants.)

    I hate running, but I agree with John. Runners tend to have great leg turnover (cadence) and they build strength in areas we leave out in addition to building aerobic capacity in a shorter period of time.
    • CommentAuthorsynthetic
    • CommentTimeDec 27th 2013
     
    long distance rides, you can push more when you are comfortable, and aero dynamic of flats.

    If you were to invest anything:
    - aerobars
    - a good seat (i love adamo for their split nose),
    - tires gatorskins, i rode 4000 miles on a pair
    - clip shoes or cages
    - tight clothing like lycra, arm-leg warmers, you dont want to be a parachute in head wind
    • CommentAuthorCurtis
    • CommentTimeDec 28th 2013
     
    Sam,

    Some interesting reading on getting stronger.

    http://www.cyclesportcoaching.com/Files/CyclingSpecificStrengthTraining.pdf

    I have found that spending more time riding improves my strength and endurance.
    • CommentAuthorSam
    • CommentTimeJan 2nd 2014 edited
     
    Thank you all for suggestions and tips. All very useful (even the tip on clipless). And yes I meant spinning higher RPMs. I've bookmarked this and will post invites for company (thanks, Erik) as well. I need to add some fun into these rides to many tedious meetings.
    • CommentAuthorSam
    • CommentTimeJan 2nd 2014 edited
     
    Wait...aerobar?!? Really? I thought those went out of style in the 80s.

    (it's quite possible I'm even more out of touch than I thought, in which case feel free to ignore this message)
  1.  
    It goes way beyond aerobars these days--more like "aerobike":



    List price $13,999. How committed are you??
    • CommentAuthorSam
    • CommentTimeJan 3rd 2014
     
    Shady John:It goes way beyond aerobars these days--more like "aerobike":



    List price $13,999. How committed are you??


    Maybe I should start a collection.
    • CommentAuthorerik
    • CommentTimeJan 3rd 2014
     
    Sam:Wait...aerobar?!? Really? I thought those went out of style in the 80s.

    (it's quite possible I'm even more out of touch than I thought, in which case feel free to ignore this message)

    I was playing with the idea of aerobars on my flat bar hybrid... Now that the idea came to me, I find it mesmerizing.

    Sam:
    Maybe I should start a collection.


    That bike might actually qualify as the opposite of your current bike.
    •  
      CommentAuthorbatmick
    • CommentTimeJan 3rd 2014
     
    I added clip on aero bars several years ago and would not go without anymore.
    On long rides it is a must-have imho. But even on my commute I enjoy the change in position and reduction in wind resistance when (as usual) I get headwinds no matter where I ride.
    Took a while to get used to them. Some scary moments until I had my motor programs adjusted...
    • CommentAuthorsynthetic
    • CommentTimeJan 3rd 2014
     
    Sam:Wait...aerobar?!? Really? I thought those went out of style in the 80s.

    (it's quite possible I'm even more out of touch than I thought, in which case feel free to ignore this message)


    UCI has banned aerobars for races like tour de france , giro de italia, etc(except time trails) - because they do give an advantage but also are dangerous when they ride 1" apart since they hinder your bike handling ability (tight turns and stops) - so that is why its likely you dont see them as much.


    aero

    This is a pretty good deal for a comfortable set:
    http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1135285_-1_400929__400929

    These we quite useful when I went through Big Sur where winds slowed my wife (on regular bars) to 4mph while I held 14.
    • CommentAuthorHMeins
    • CommentTimeJan 3rd 2014
     
    UCI and USAC both forbid the use of time trial bars in mass start races. USAC rule is 1M1(d). The reason for the restriction is that TT bars do not provide the level of control necessary for riding in groups.
    •  
      CommentAuthorPaul
    • CommentTimeJan 3rd 2014
     
    I thought this was just humor but now people are taking it seriously. Please don't.

    Most "aero" advantages don't come into effect until at least 17 mph and really around 22 and then they are still marginal (science!) The biggest aero advantage is not equipment related, but body position. Just get in the drops if you have them. If you find too much wind resistance there (ha,) maybe consider it. For a commuter or rando style bike, the seating position doesn't put you in a place to take advantage of the forward bar position. Endurance racers do use them, but mostly at distances of 500 miles and above. This is also a comfort issue over a period of time-- a very long period of time. Unless you have extreme health issues, these have no place on a training or commuter bike. This is a horrible sin.

    Apologies to Batmick and cool that it's working for you, but if you haven't tried it already there are far less extreme solutions to gain marginal speed and comfort.

    As HMeins noted, they are forbidden in situations where you are around other riders. There have been some really stupid crashes on Fiesta as recently as last year, caused by people trying to TT in light traffic.
    • CommentAuthorsynthetic
    • CommentTimeJan 3rd 2014
     
    Paul:I thought this was just humor but now people are taking it seriously. Please don't.

    Most "aero" advantages don't come into effect until at least 17 mph and really around 22 and then they are still marginal (science!) The biggest aero advantage is not equipment related, but body position. Just get in the drops if you have them. If you find too much wind resistance there (ha,) maybe consider it. For a commuter or rando style bike, the seating position doesn't put you in a place to take advantage of the forward bar position. Endurance racers do use them, but mostly at distances of 500 miles and above. This is also a comfort issue over a period of time-- a very long period of time. Unless you have extreme health issues, these have no place on a training or commuter bike. This is a horrible sin.

    Apologies to Batmick and cool that it's working for you, but if you haven't tried it already there are far less extreme solutions to gain marginal speed and comfort.

    As HMeins noted, they are forbidden in situations where you are around other riders. There have been some really stupid crashes on Fiesta as recently as last year, caused by people trying to TT in light traffic.


    yes the drops give an aero position but also holding yourself up fatigues the arms. so while long rides the aero advantage is not much for speed, the the ability to rest is an advantage (you save about 4 W of constant energy) - so you can also get away with eating less and stopping less to rest.
    •  
      CommentAuthorbatmick
    • CommentTimeJan 3rd 2014
     
    Paul:I thought this was just humor but now people are taking it seriously. Please don't.

    Most "aero" advantages don't come into effect until at least 17 mph and really around 22 and then they are still marginal (science!) The biggest aero advantage is not equipment related, but body position. Just get in the drops if you have them. If you find too much wind resistance there (ha,) maybe consider it. For a commuter or rando style bike, the seating position doesn't put you in a place to take advantage of the forward bar position. Endurance racers do use them, but mostly at distances of 500 miles and above. This is also a comfort issue over a period of time-- a very long period of time. Unless you have extreme health issues, these have no place on a training or commuter bike. This is a horrible sin.

    Apologies to Batmick and cool that it's working for you, but if you haven't tried it already there are far less extreme solutions to gain marginal speed and comfort.

    As HMeins noted, they are forbidden in situations where you are around other riders. There have been some really stupid crashes on Fiesta as recently as last year, caused by people trying to TT in light traffic.


    No offense taken Paul.

    You can cite all the science you want but for me it does increase my average and my comfort. I do not like riding in the drops for long time. That is just uncomfortable for me. But stretching out and resting in my aerobars feels good, even on shorter rides.
    I think everybody needs to set up their bikes the way they feel comfortable with. Science and "professional" advice can be helpful but only go so far. Calling somebody else's setup a horrible sin simply because you have a different belief is harsh. Reminds me of the Linux - OS X -Win holy wars. Pointless.

    I understand why aerobars are banned in large events. Fortunately I don't do group rides or mass events so I don't have to care.
    •  
      CommentAuthorPaul
    • CommentTimeJan 3rd 2014
     
    ^^ all true. Go with what works for you, especially regarding comfort and another resting position clearly provides that. There is someone in my trainer class using them for an extra hand position during the lengthy standing climbs and she's a badass rider.
    The science comments are in response to some of the silliness that another has posted. Wearing a tighter jersey isn't going to help someone who wants to increase pace to comfortably finish a brevet. The horrible sin comment is bikesnobbery of the nth degree.

    Posted from my Linux box, which totally roolz.
    • CommentAuthorsynthetic
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2014
     
    batmick:
    Paul:I thought this was just humor but now people are taking it seriously. Please don't.

    Most "aero" advantages don't come into effect until at least 17 mph and really around 22 and then they are still marginal (science!) The biggest aero advantage is not equipment related, but body position. Just get in the drops if you have them. If you find too much wind resistance there (ha,) maybe consider it. For a commuter or rando style bike, the seating position doesn't put you in a place to take advantage of the forward bar position. Endurance racers do use them, but mostly at distances of 500 miles and above. This is also a comfort issue over a period of time-- a very long period of time. Unless you have extreme health issues, these have no place on a training or commuter bike. This is a horrible sin.

    Apologies to Batmick and cool that it's working for you, but if you haven't tried it already there are far less extreme solutions to gain marginal speed and comfort.

    As HMeins noted, they are forbidden in situations where you are around other riders. There have been some really stupid crashes on Fiesta as recently as last year, caused by people trying to TT in light traffic.


    No offense taken Paul.

    You can cite all the science you want but for me it does increase my average and my comfort. I do not like riding in the drops for long time. That is just uncomfortable for me. But stretching out and resting in my aerobars feels good, even on shorter rides.
    I think everybody needs to set up their bikes the way they feel comfortable with. Science and "professional" advice can be helpful but only go so far. Calling somebody else's setup a horrible sin simply because you have a different belief is harsh. Reminds me of the Linux - OS X -Win holy wars. Pointless.

    I understand why aerobars are banned in large events. Fortunately I don't do group rides or mass events so I don't have to care.


    reminds me when I did gran fondo, guy in a team kit with ultra light expensive bike,etc etc... making fun of me for riding in the bars to KOM point. When it came to the finish of the KOM, I was 5 minutes ahead of him.
    •  
      CommentAuthorPaul
    • CommentTimeJan 6th 2014 edited
     
    synthetic:reminds me when I did gran fondo, guy in a team kit with ultra light expensive bike,etc etc... making fun of me for riding in the bars to KOM point. When it came to the finish of the KOM, I was 5 minutes ahead of him.
    Why? Maybe you were younger, fitter, faster, more rested on that day, decided to ride a different pace on that climb... maybe he clobbered you overall. Who cares? What did it have to do with using aero bars?
    Regardless, the original poster, who wants to ride at a non-time trial race pace asked for tips on improving her speed and cadence and you responded with inane tips to get more aero and wear tight clothing, which you know she isn't going to do.

    Okay, done responding to this nonsense.

    • CommentAuthorsynthetic
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2014
     
    im just trying to present the alternative, on long distance you will go faster if you are comfortable - so at least make sure the bike fit is there, back hurting after only 20-40 miles is a definite sign.
    •  
      CommentAuthorbilld
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2014 edited
     
    Paul:Most "aero" advantages don't come into effect until at least 17 mph and really around 22 and then they are still marginal (science!)
    That depends.

    You really need to be considering air speed rather than land speed.

    I have cheap cruiser that I keep at the office for hitting the local sandwich shops at lunch. I sit very upright on it (it's a cruiser). I don't have a computer on it to know my real speed but with no wind, I would guess that my typical max speed is around 10-12mph. When I'm riding west (to get lunch), the wind makes me work. When I'm going east (back to the office) the wind helps me and I got much faster. Note that I'm not really trying hard either way. I don't want to sweat just to get lunch.

    On my racing bike (during the commute) my significantly more aero position makes a very real difference going west but not as much going east. The aero advantages of the bike are less than the aero advantages of body position but I think that they still matter.