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    • CommentAuthorsynthetic
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2015
     
    i know you folks love to climb soledad. but if you had some unrepairable ailment for your bike, how well would you do with out it?

    currently #10 on the KOM list here :) first time i ever ran up this hill

    https://www.strava.com/segments/1222535?filter=overall
    •  
      CommentAuthorbikingbill
    • CommentTimeDec 21st 2015
     
    I used to bet people I could ride up Vesuvius (in Virginia) without stopping during Bikecentennial 1976. I worked for them so I got to ride it 4x (8 trips across the state).

    One time I had a flat and still made it up. Sewups of course.
    • CommentAuthorsynthetic
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2015
     
    bikingbill:I used to bet people I could ride up Vesuvius (in Virginia) without stopping during Bikecentennial 1976. I worked for them so I got to ride it 4x (8 trips across the state).

    One time I had a flat and still made it up. Sewups of course.


    more so the point of this thread is to compare your bike time up soledad vs run time via placement (percentage wise). So if you are top 100th place of 1000 people on bike - can you do 10/100 run?
    •  
      CommentAuthorPaul
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2015
     
    • CommentAuthormfutch
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2015
     
    My sticker is 1.0. I will occasionally run, but I refuse to run further than that.
    •  
      CommentAuthorbatmick
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2015
     
    Paul:


    Love it!

    I never understood the fascination of running. Feet are for working pedals!
    •  
      CommentAuthorPaul
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2015
     
    batmick:
    Paul:


    Love it!

    I never understood the fascination of running. Feet are for working pedals!


    • CommentAuthorsynthetic
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2015
     
    batmick:
    Paul:


    Love it!

    I never understood the fascination of running. Feet are for working pedals!


    bike is external equipment that can fail... in running - its your fault for failure :) you can do it anywhere, anytime.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSigurd
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2015 edited
     
    synthetic:...if you had some unrepairable ailment for your bike, how well would you do with out it?
    synthetic:...more so the point of this thread...
    Wait - wasn't the point of this thread about how to manage if your bike broke beyond on-the-road repair? Answers: 1) Bring it to the bike shop (easy on Soledad - just coast south to Bicycle Discovery or west to CalBike), or 2) Coast home and use one of your other bikes.

    I don't see a problem here.

    • CommentAuthorShady John
    • CommentTimeDec 24th 2015
     
    Synthetic,

    I think you're making a valid point, in a way--that it's interesting to see how the relative rankings between two athletes would change across different aerobic activities. But clearly having a "big engine" isn't the only key to success in any given activity. "Big engine" could be relatively easily defined as continuous power output, or sustained VO2, or some other measure. But that's only part of the equation. In running, road cycling (e.g. time trial), swimming, cross-country skiing, mountain-biking, speed skating, ocean paddling, etc, there are particular anatomical requirements, skill requirements, and external factors that all contribute. Is power-to-weight the governing factor (as in hill climbing), or is it power-to-wind resistance (as in time trialing)? Skill and technique are under-appreciated even in something as apparently instinctive as distance running. And fine anatomical features are more important than you would think. David Epstein spells this out in his book "The Sports Gene" (http://thesportsgene.com/) in his analysis of Kenyan accomplishments in distance running. So it is unsurprising that on a forum biased towards cycling, you'll find people with a wide range of running ability--and a similarly wide range of responses to your challenge. I was not offended by your post, but I think your post can be seen as bragging; i.e. "I'm a good runner, not just a cyclist, I bet you all can't run up Soledad as well as I can." You will get a warmer response if you phrase things differently. And frankly, I think most of the people here are not much for running--you will get a more receptive response in another forum, I would imagine.

    As for your actual question--how well can we run up Soledad? I do it frequently, but I would have a hard time comparing the same segment across running and cycling. I might give your running segment a go one of these days and see how I do. But I'll say one thing about the difference between running and cycling: At age 51, on a bike, I can do a maximal aerobic effort and I'll be winded for a while, maybe I'll cough for the rest of the day, but it's not a big deal. Whereas doing a maximal running effort would mean sore or pulled hamstrings, sore knees, etc, in addition to the aerobic fatigue, at least on the flats. I like to run still once or twice a week--being able to run feels like an essential part of being a human being to me. But it's easy to overdo it, and for me, at this age, cycling is more rewarding, especially on a mountain bike on trails.
    •  
      CommentAuthorbatmick
    • CommentTimeDec 24th 2015
     
    synthetic:
    batmick:
    Paul:


    Love it!

    I never understood the fascination of running. Feet are for working pedals!


    bike is external equipment that can fail... in running - its your fault for failure :) you can do it anywhere, anytime.


    Understood. I just don't think it's fun. And if it isn't fun, why do it?

    Strictly personal opinion and nonjudgmental.
    • CommentAuthorsynthetic
    • CommentTimeDec 24th 2015
     
    Shady John:Synthetic,

    I think you're making a valid point, in a way--that it's interesting to see how the relative rankings between two athletes would change across different aerobic activities. But clearly having a "big engine" isn't the only key to success in any given activity. "Big engine" could be relatively easily defined as continuous power output, or sustained VO2, or some other measure. But that's only part of the equation. In running, road cycling (e.g. time trial), swimming, cross-country skiing, mountain-biking, speed skating, ocean paddling, etc, there are particular anatomical requirements, skill requirements, and external factors that all contribute. Is power-to-weight the governing factor (as in hill climbing), or is it power-to-wind resistance (as in time trialing)? Skill and technique are under-appreciated even in something as apparently instinctive as distance running. And fine anatomical features are more important than you would think. David Epstein spells this out in his book "The Sports Gene" (http://thesportsgene.com/) in his analysis of Kenyan accomplishments in distance running. So it is unsurprising that on a forum biased towards cycling, you'll find people with a wide range of running ability--and a similarly wide range of responses to your challenge. I was not offended by your post, but I think your post can be seen as bragging; i.e. "I'm a good runner, not just a cyclist, I bet you all can't run up Soledad as well as I can." You will get a warmer response if you phrase things differently. And frankly, I think most of the people here are not much for running--you will get a more receptive response in another forum, I would imagine.

    As for your actual question--how well can we run up Soledad? I do it frequently, but I would have a hard time comparing the same segment across running and cycling. I might give your running segment a go one of these days and see how I do. But I'll say one thing about the difference between running and cycling: At age 51, on a bike, I can do a maximal aerobic effort and I'll be winded for a while, maybe I'll cough for the rest of the day, but it's not a big deal. Whereas doing a maximal running effort would mean sore or pulled hamstrings, sore knees, etc, in addition to the aerobic fatigue, at least on the flats. I like to run still once or twice a week--being able to run feels like an essential part of being a human being to me. But it's easy to overdo it, and for me, at this age, cycling is more rewarding, especially on a mountain bike on trails.


    sore knees is a sign of poor running form. Although you are right, specificity is key. But you never know till you try, right? I know some of the top KOM bike guys can also nail the run (Lars Finanger, Eric Lagerstrom, Keith Butsko, Luke Binder)
    •  
      CommentAuthorPaul
    • CommentTimeDec 25th 2015
     
    synthetic:
    batmick:
    Paul:


    Love it!

    I never understood the fascination of running. Feet are for working pedals!


    bike is external equipment that can fail... in running - its your fault for failure :) you can do it anywhere, anytime.


    I have a bunch of them and they are all well-maintained. Also, who is chasing you? :D Have fun
    •  
      CommentAuthorSigurd
    • CommentTimeDec 25th 2015
     
    My bikes break all the time. Does this mean I want to take up running instead?! Yeah, right...
    • CommentAuthorsynthetic
    • CommentTimeDec 25th 2015
     
    Sigurd:My bikes break all the time. Does this mean I want to take up running instead?! Yeah, right...


    these top guys started doing track running in highschool (including logan bass). it just interesting in cycling talent development, there isnt much for youth entry, likely due to cost barrier
    •  
      CommentAuthorSmorg
    • CommentTimeDec 25th 2015
     
    Bah, humbug... Some enjoys running, some don't, I don't see why anyone should try to read anything into why other people don't enjoy all the same activities (and the level of effort involved) they do. :oP Just do what you want to do and enjoy it without looking down on anyone else who don't do it (or don't do it as fast), and everyone should be happy.

    It's the holiday season, after all. Have fun, folks (even if that means spending the day on the couch slurping pizza and watching old favorite films or whatever)! :o)
    • CommentAuthorCurtis
    • CommentTimeDec 25th 2015
     
    Smorg,

    Your words are refreshingly clear and spot on. Thank you.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSmorg
    • CommentTimeDec 26th 2015
     
    Thanks, Curtis! :o)
    •  
      CommentAuthorPaul
    • CommentTimeDec 27th 2015
     
    Smorg:Bah, humbug... Some enjoys running, some don't, I don't see why anyone should try to read anything into why other people don't enjoy all the same activities (and the level of effort involved) they do. :oP Just do what you want to do and enjoy it without looking down on anyone else who don't do it (or don't do it as fast), and everyone should be happy.

    It's the holiday season, after all. Have fun, folks (even if that means spending the day on the couch slurping pizza and watching old favorite films or whatever)! :o)


    It's okay Smorg - Synthetic know he's wrong about running - that's why it's so fun to tease him. It's what the internet is for. Everybody is slurping the wrong kind of pizza and watching the wrong films too.

    • CommentAuthorsynthetic
    • CommentTimeDec 27th 2015
     
    i just found a correlation and was wondering if anyone was interested in testing it out. that is all.
    •  
      CommentAuthorCornelia
    • CommentTimeDec 27th 2015
     
    <blockquote><cite> synthetic:</cite>i just found a correlation and was wondering if anyone was interested in testing it out. that is all.</blockquote>

    That is not really all, but you did start a bragging/pissing contest and the kind people of sdbikecommuter responded accordingly. Thanks for the entertainment though, you truly are the best ;-)
    •  
      CommentAuthorbikingbill
    • CommentTimeDec 29th 2015
     
    synthetic:
    bikingbill:I used to bet people I could ride up Vesuvius (in Virginia) without stopping during Bikecentennial 1976. I worked for them so I got to ride it 4x (8 trips across the state).

    One time I had a flat and still made it up. Sewups of course.


    more so the point of this thread is to compare your bike time up soledad vs run time via placement (percentage wise). So if you are top 100th place of 1000 people on bike - can you do 10/100 run?


    Do we have a Clydesdale class?
    •  
      CommentAuthorbikingbill
    • CommentTimeDec 29th 2015
     
    Paul:


    True story. When to "student health" in college, because of running induced pains.

    Doctor says to me: "Ever been to the Cloisters in NY? ... notice the size of the crypts? notice how short everyone was? You're too big to run, humans weren't meant to be that large .. do something else". Never ran for training again (we did run up stairs though).

    (The Cloisters is situated on a hill overlooking the Hudson River, and incorporates parts from five European abbeys which were disassembled and shipped to New York City, where, between 1934 and 1939, they were reconstructed and integrated together with new buildings in the medieval style)
    • CommentAuthorShady John
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2015
     
    I do happen to find the correlations interesting. But they'll always break down at some point, because in the end each activity is different, in some way. Remember when Lance Armstrong said he was going to run the New York marathon, and there were whispers that he was going to try to win? No chance. Although I read once that Miguel Indurain had been a good 400 m runner as a teen. My guess is that it's more likely for a good distance runner to also be an above average cyclist, than for a strong cyclist to be a good distance runner.
    • CommentAuthorsynthetic
    • CommentTimeJan 1st 2016
     
    bikingbill:
    Paul:


    True story. When to "student health" in college, because of running induced pains.

    Doctor says to me: "Ever been to the Cloisters in NY? ... notice the size of the crypts? notice how short everyone was? You're too big to run, humans weren't meant to be that large .. do something else". Never ran for training again (we did run up stairs though).

    (The Cloisters is situated on a hill overlooking the Hudson River, and incorporates parts from five European abbeys which were disassembled and shipped to New York City, where, between 1934 and 1939, they were reconstructed and integrated together with new buildings in the medieval style)


    there is a triathlete out there , alex viada who is 220+lb (clyde) who has done a low 4 minute mile at that weight. OF course this hurts him for long distance due to heat dissipation.... just like im sure robert forstemann cant hang with tour de france guys do to his size. i guess the middle ground for ALL athletes of every size in road cycling is 20k TT and for running the 1 mile race.

    Shady John:I do happen to find the correlations interesting. But they'll always break down at some point, because in the end each activity is different, in some way. Remember when Lance Armstrong said he was going to run the New York marathon, and there were whispers that he was going to try to win? No chance. Although I read once that Miguel Indurain had been a good 400 m runner as a teen. My guess is that it's more likely for a good distance runner to also be an above average cyclist, than for a strong cyclist to be a good distance runner.


    the last year triathlon he won before his ban, he had the fastest run time in panama half ironman, his run time for half marathon was 1:13 (which is 2-5min slower than what you can do not biking). So his NYC was fairly terrible (2:44) - but he did improve when tri training, still not good enough to even stay close with the north africans (they run 1:02 half marathons)