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    • CommentAuthorbikingbill
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2010
     
    Serge:
    I totally agree with you about the effect of that rail trail here. I just got lambasted on the sdcbc list for saying that facilities often imply that bicyclists don't belong in the street. I think that's the effect they often have, and it was manifested on this stretch of 101 first by them not creating any bike lanes at all, and then, when bicyclists protested, these narrow(er) ones were put in. But the notion implied by the "multi use" path parallel to the road remain: that that is where bicyclists should ride.

    So, you were in the bike lane, not controlling a traffic lane, when you were still hit from behind. I'm curious by this since you were the one who said "a facilities advocate is a vehicular cyclist who was hit yesterday".

    I suppose you can blame it on the narrowness of the bike lane, rather than on the bike lane itself, but if the bike lane was wider, you would probably still have been riding near the stripe (we all tend to ride there because debris usually makes all but the pavement near the stripe undesirable), no? If you had noticed him coming in a mirror you might have been able to dodge in a wider bike lane, but most cyclists don't have mirrors, and most who do probably don't monitor often enough to do that. In other words, the bike lane doesn't really protect you (my theory is it makes you more likely to get hit, because the stripe creates a false sense of security, and makes bicyclists seem irrelevant to motorists who are then more likely to not notice them and thus drift into them). I read and hear about bicyclists hit in bike lanes all the time (glad you're alive to talk about your case); this is why I don't get why bicyclists seem to want bike lanes so much. Riding in a bike lane is effectively donning a cloak of invisibility and riding on a debris magnet. And that debris can be deadly. A cyclist was killed about two years ago on Torrey Pines Rd. when he hit a branch in the bike lane that popped into his front wheel, locked it up, and he went over the bars. His riding buddy estimates their speed was about 15 mph, and he had a helmet on. I much prefer the motorist-swept-clean pavement in the traffic lanes where I'm more visible, thank you very much.


    Either have a standard bike lane or don't.

    Irvine, CA has bike lanes done right. About the width of a narrow car lane.

    The problem with La Costa is the lane implies to drivers that they can drive next to it. It's simply not wide enough. The 'drop off' to the curbstone is too risky to ride in.

    Sharrows would be more appropriate.

    I've asked this question on the SDBC list with no response ... would we prefer the current situation or something akin to Copenhagen?
    • CommentAuthorbikingbill
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2010
     
    FYI: My new technique on La Costa Ave is to make it clear that my bike is NOT in the bike lane at all times. Ride to the left of it and only move to the right when a vehicle is close. Get more room that way.

    I'd rather the lane be removed at this point.
    • CommentAuthorSerge
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2010 edited
     
    bikingbill:

    Either have a standard bike lane or don't.

    Irvine, CA has bike lanes done right. About the width of a narrow car lane.

    Bike lanes "about the width of a narrow car lane" are way beyond the standard (which, as Kathy noted, is 4-5' wide). The narrowest of traffic lanes are 9' wide (max vehicle width is 8.5').

    bikingbill:
    The problem with La Costa is the lane implies to drivers that they can drive next to it. It's simply not wide enough. The 'drop off' to the curbstone is too risky to ride in.

    Sharrows would be more appropriate.

    I've asked this question on the SDBC list with no response ... would we prefer the current situation or something akin to Copenhagen?

    I agree about the La Costa bike lanes. I'm just not sure making them (merely) standard width would be significantly better.

    The Copenhagen question is complex and probably requires an in-depth response that I've not taken the time to prepare yet, and I think might not be appropriate on this forum anyway due to its almost certain controversial nature (I'm still adjusting to get the "feel" of this forum).

    bikingbill:FYI: My new technique on La Costa Ave is to make it clear that my bike is NOT in the bike lane at all times. Ride to the left of it and only move to the right when a vehicle is close. Get more room that way.

    I'd rather the lane be removed at this point.

    That's my technique and attitude about most roads with bike lanes, whether they are "too narrow", or not. The stripe has the "invisibility cloak" effect whether the bike lane is narrow or wide. When I do ride in bike lanes, to allow faster traffic to pass easier, it's almost always just right of the stripe, so the width of the bike lane is mostly irrelevant to me, except as potential "escape" space (which I've never had to use, thankfully).
    •  
      CommentAuthorKathy
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2010
     
    bikingbill:

    Well, what about La Costa?



    La Costa is a pretty long road - which part of La Costa? I'm happy to go take a look with my tape measure... or maybe you have measured them? It's hard to get good numbers from Google Earth, but so far I'm only seeing 5 foot lanes. :-(
    • CommentAuthorbikingbill
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2010
     
    Kathy:
    bikingbill:

    Well, what about La Costa?



    La Costa is a pretty long road - which part of La Costa? I'm happy to go take a look with my tape measure... or maybe you have measured them? It's hard to get good numbers from Google Earth, but so far I'm only seeing 5 foot lanes. :-(


    Eastbound ... sections between I5 and El Camino.

    Section I was hit on was just East of Saxony.

    NOT 5 foot wide. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe 2 feet of asphalt and then a 1 foot curbstone with a nice drop.

    Let me post a link:

    http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=2658+Cazadero+Dr,+Carlsbad,+San+Diego,+California+92009&ll=33.087191,-117.286949&spn=0,359.982319&z=16&layer=c&cbll=33.087193,-117.286794&panoid=Ixqvng49BWT4TBv5n4gCkw&cbp=12,98.63,,0,3.8
    • CommentAuthorSerge
    • CommentTimeFeb 11th 2010 edited
     
    bikingbill:
    markphilips:
    bikingbill:I think drivers are getting used to me taking the lane on the Alga Rd. (Carlsbad) downhill. No one seems to mind anymore.


    Great job in conditioning drivers in your neighborhood. They may have seen you enough times to notice that their are cyclists using this road.


    The bike is distinctive enough to be memorable and my speed is above 40 on that section. It's too fast for the bike lane.

    The grade is 11%-12% at the steepest. You can pick up considerable speed if you're crazy enough.

    I think this discussion in the "How was the commute today?" thread is a good example of "bicycling advocacy by example". It's amazing how much influence even one cyclist can have in terms of "conditioning" motorists on his or her regular commute. I have to believe that there is some residual effect, too. That is, if a motorist often encounters a bicycle commuter taking the lane on a road like Alga, it follows that he might not be quite as alarmed by seeing another cyclist doing something similar somewhere else, as he might otherwise be.

    I often wonder if there is some "critical mass" of bicyclists demonstrating proper safety technique to enough motorists so that a "critical mass" of motorists is generally conditioned to that too. Regardless, even one cyclist can make a big difference, at least with those he or she regularly encounters. Anything else is the cream on top. Sometimes I also wonder if advocacy by example might be the most effective form of advocacy, because not only does it condition motorists, but it demonstrates safe and comfortable behavior in traffic to other cyclists, and potential cyclists, as well.

    In any case, good job.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKathy
    • CommentTimeFeb 11th 2010
     
    bikingbill: Eastbound ... sections between I5 and El Camino.

    Section I was hit on was just East of Saxony.

    NOT 5 foot wide. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe 2 feet of asphalt and then a 1 foot curbstone with a nice drop.



    I went out this morning with my trusty tape measure. There's clearly some spots where the asphalt is less than 3 feet wide - mostly where the drain grates are, and at the intersections (especially at El Camino Real) where they tried to squeeze in some extra lanes. Most of it on the eastbound side is 3 feet of clear asphalt, which is just barely the minimum to meet the standard. I'll definitely agree that the City of Carlsbad did the barest minimum they could to retain the bike lanes. They should have made them wider. I'm trying to figure out what to do with it next. there are rumors the street would be widened to accommodate impacts from the Ponto development, but I can't find the specific notation in the Ponto plans yet. I'll keep looking.
    • CommentAuthorbikingbill
    • CommentTimeFeb 11th 2010
     
    Kathy:
    bikingbill: Eastbound ... sections between I5 and El Camino.

    Section I was hit on was just East of Saxony.

    NOT 5 foot wide. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe 2 feet of asphalt and then a 1 foot curbstone with a nice drop.



    I went out this morning with my trusty tape measure. There's clearly some spots where the asphalt is less than 3 feet wide - mostly where the drain grates are, and at the intersections (especially at El Camino Real) where they tried to squeeze in some extra lanes. Most of it on the eastbound side is 3 feet of clear asphalt, which is just barely the minimum to meet the standard. I'll definitely agree that the City of Carlsbad did the barest minimum they could to retain the bike lanes. They should have made them wider. I'm trying to figure out what to do with it next. there are rumors the street would be widened to accommodate impacts from the Ponto development, but I can't find the specific notation in the Ponto plans yet. I'll keep looking.


    Thank you.

    I was lucky to have a large box on the back of the bike that took that hit. This was a road that years ago (prior to the median) was better for cycling than it is today.
    • CommentAuthorjay
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2010
     
    Here's my advocacy contribution for the day.

    A previous post referred to "proper safety technique" for bicyclists. I understand how this view arises, and I have no personal criticisms of anyone here or their contributions to the forum.

    But let's be clear.

    There's only one dangerous thing happening on the roads, and it's not bicycling.

    Non-dangerous-to-others road users, such as bicyclists and pedestrians, are not obligated to follow any technical practices to avoid death caused by dangrerous-to-others road users.

    The idea of bicyclists practicing "safety techniques" perpetuates the conviction that roads exist primarily for automobiles. The only people that need to practice "safety techniques" are people operating machines that kill people.

    I don't believe, or advocate, that roads, or the city, exists for automobiles.

    I believe that human beings have a higher calling than the burning of petroleum.

    The street belongs to everyone. Oil has stolen it from people. The dinosaurs are still winning. Bicycles are a machine that can change that.

    We, human beings, can take back our own streets, and use them for sharing joy among people. Oil, and its automobiles, will keep trying (and occasionally succeeding) to kill those who do not obey its logic. But the power of oil comes only from our desire to spend something that is not ours -- energy from the sun, collected eons ago. We spend that energy like it's not going to last, and kill anything in our way, because we are, you know, like that.

    Ride happy. (I try to, I don't often do a very good job. Help me out.)
    • CommentAuthorbikingbill
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2010
     
    Driving (a car) is a privilege. Riding a bike or walking, is a right.

    Do whatever it takes to be safe. I learned my lesson the painful way. Assert yourself, control the lane if you have to.
    • CommentAuthorSerge
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2010
     
    jay:

    There's only one dangerous thing happening on the roads, and it's not bicycling.

    Non-dangerous-to-others road users, such as bicyclists and pedestrians, are not obligated to follow any technical practices to avoid death caused by dangrerous-to-others road users.

    Let's not forget that typical bicyclist speeds also create hazardous conditions. Bicyclists are seriously injured and even sometimes killed in crashes with others on bike paths. Traffic rules were not created for automobiles, for they were created before automobiles existed.

    While it's true that most of the traffic out there happens to be comprised of automobiles today, we would still need these rules, and follow them, if it was all bikes, pedestrians and horses again.

    Also, we have the rules to engender efficiency at least as much as safety. Embrace the rules of the road, they're a good thing, in a world with or without motorized vehicles.
    • CommentAuthorthom
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2010
     
    Serge: Let's not forget that typical bicyclist speeds also create hazardous conditions. Bicyclists are seriously injured and even sometimes killed in crashes with others on bike paths. Traffic rules were not created for automobiles, for they were created before automobiles existed.

    While it's true that most of the traffic out there happens to be comprised of automobiles today, we would still need these rules, and follow them, if it was all bikes, pedestrians and horses again.

    Also, we have the rules to engender efficiency at least as much as safety. Embrace the rules of the road, they're a good thing, in a world with or without motorized vehicles.


    Okay, as a historian I've gotta jump in here. The laws and infrastructure we have now *are* auto-centric and many of them were created after WWII. Our current system did not just drop from the sky fully-formed sometime around 1890. Watch the turn of the century San Francisco video posted recently in the Video Thread and you'll see that the "traffic rules" then were not what we would recognize as such today (even with cars on the road). Yes, traffic rules existed before cars existed, but *our current* traffic rules did not. We would not need "these rules" if it was all bikes, pedestrians, and horses. We would have different rules. And again, the assumption that "the rules of the road" are static and fixed and were handed down by some sort of omniscient City Planning God back in some moment of divine inspiration is all kinds of wrong. Rules, laws, infrastructure, assumptions, these are not static things--they respond to culture and society. If we just assume that it's our duty as bicyclists to squeeze ourselves into a car-shaped mould, we establish ourselves not as equal road-users, but as a minority trying to act like a majority, which ironically tends only to increase the perception that we are a minority. We need stronger advocacy for bike-centric infrastructure to place us clearly within the transportation culture of this country--it will be a historic change to our laws and roadways, and one that is badly needed.

    BTW, this will be my one and only post on the topic.
    •  
      CommentAuthorNjord Noatun
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2010 edited
     
    Jay and Thom - you bring up very valid points that bring "advocacy" up to a strategic, and to me much more interesting, level.

    When watching that 1905 S.F. movie, it also struck me that -- amidst all the apparent chaos -- it all worked fairly well, despite the lack of stringent rules and vehicle codes: It works because there is a balance of transportation modes - electric and cable street cars, horsedrawn carriages, pedestrians, bikes, horses: But once one mode of transportation becomes dominant - case in point, automobiles - rules have to be established, followed to the letter, and most importantly, the rules become centric to the dominant transportation mode: In our case, traffic rules -- and more critically, infrastructure and facilities -- became car-centric, and everybody else, by now a minority, need to adapt to an infrastructure not set up for them.

    So the principal question for a bicyclist boils down to - should one adapt to rules and infrastructre that are not created by or for us, and which do not suit and keep us a minority, disenfranchised and outcast. or should one try to change the mindset and create an environment better suited to us? To me, the answer is fairly simple - and this is where Copenhagen is different from the "Golden Triangle" or Midway.

    This may not happen in my lifetime, and in the mean time I need to take small steps in the right direction.

    PS! And, like Thom, I reserve the right to not make any further comments on this topic.
    • CommentAuthorSerge
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2010 edited
     
    I did not mean to imply that we have the same vehicle code as we did 100 years ago. But it is my understanding that the basic principles underlying traffic rules were all or mostly in place when automobiles first started appearing. The basic rules like "stay on the right half of the road" (or left in some other countries, of course), faster traffic passes slower traffic on the left, obey traffic controls like stop signs, first come - first served, etc., yield to those on your right, existed from the start. Of course there were no traffic signals, freeways, destination-specific lanes, etc., and all the rules specific to those types of things, but as all that evolved the rules specific to them were mostly made consistent with the original principles, which makes their use natural and intuitive.

    Perhaps ironically, it is some bike-specific facilities (and their associated specific rules) that are designed inconsistently with these principles, most notably bike lane treatment at intersections (without right only lanes) in which through cyclists are treated like "rolling pedestrians" rather than drivers, and so guided to travel to the right of right turning motor traffic, to their peril. A typical example of this is southbound Regents Rd at La Jolla Village Dr (link) where the bike lane guides bicyclists (mostly going straight) to ride near the curb, to the right of about half the motor traffic that turns right. Regulars here have learned, sometimes the hard way, I'm sure, to ignore the bike lane guidance and to move far left in the lane, leaving room for the right turners on their right. Those with knowledge of the underlying traffic principles and an understanding of how they work for you do this habitually, instinctively really, without having to learn the hard way. Certainly following the rules would not be as important without cars on the roads, but the reality is that they are there, and they're probably not going away any time soon.

    I should also add that within my lifetime I've seen the traffic system, like Time magazine, "dumbed down". to the point where many seem to have forgotten what a right turn arm signal looks like, how to make a left turn at a signal-controlled intersection without a dedicated left turn arrow, who has priority at uncontrolled intersections, that slow-moving vehicle drivers (and bicyclists) in the slow lane are doing nothing wrong, what the basic speed law is and how violating it is a required factor for slow moving traffic to be a "hazard", etc.

    William Phelps Eno (1858-1945) was an American businessman responsible for many of the earliest innovations in road safety and traffic control. He is sometimes known as the "Father of traffic safety", despite never having learned to drive a car himself.
    He graduated from Yale University in 1882, where he had been a member of Skull and Bones.
    Though automobiles were rare until Eno was an older man, horse-drawn carriages were already causing significant traffic problems in urban areas like Eno's home town of New York City. In 1900, he wrote a piece on traffic safety entitled Reform in Our Street Traffic Urgently Needed. In 1903, he wrote a city traffic code for New York, the first such code in the world. He designed traffic plans for New York, London, and Paris.
    Among the innovations credited to Eno are the stop sign, the pedestrian crosswalk, the traffic circle, the one-way street, the taxi stand, and pedestrian safety islands.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Phelps_Eno

    Also, in 1905 SF may have been somewhat behind NYC in terms of traffic rules development.

    Okay, with these clarifications out of the way, I should be done too. :face-monkey:
    • CommentAuthorSerge
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2010 edited
     
    On the question of whether bicycling is dangerous, Robert Hurt has his usually pretty unique perspective, which is given in this blog of excerpts from his book cobbled together:



    Is cycling dangerous? Yes. Yes, it is. Deadly, no, but definitely dangerous. This is actually a controversial thing to say. There are those who bristle at any suggestion that cycling is dangerous, because they fear it will scare noncyclists away from ever ditching their cars and trying a more healthy form of transport. This is a good point, but it doesn’t change the fact that cycling is dangerous. This is not some urban legend that needs to be debunked. It is reality, and we need to embrace it (page 69).
    ...
    The most important lesson to be learned here is a bitter pill to swallow: There is no greater danger to the cyclist than the cyclist’s own incompetence. As a whole, it turns out, cyclists are not an entirely smooth and skillful lot. The majority of cycling accidents are embarrassing solo incidents, with the cyclist sliding out on turns, stacking it up after ramming potholes, curbs, and other obstacles, or just generally losing control (page 161, emphasis in original).
    http://district5diary.blogspot.com/2005/02/your-mission-chump-ride-bike-in-city.html

    Collisions with motor vehicles are potentially more damaging but account for no more than about 15 percent of all cycling accidents. About half of car-bike accidents are instigated by cyclists who ride into traffic without looking, ride on the wrong side of the street, blow lights and stop signs, or otherwise ride in an unpredictable and lawless manner. This means that about half of car-bike collisions could be prevented if cyclists would simply follow traditional traffic-law principles. Most of the rest could likely be prevented with a little experience, preparedness, and respect for the perils of the road. Admitting it is the first step toward moving beyond it. That surly looking character in your bathroom mirror is often your worst enemy out on the street (page 161).


    http://district5diary.blogspot.com/2008/08/robert-hurst-on-cycling-in-city.html
    •  
      CommentAuthorbëany
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2010
     
    An old Salon article, Why don't we do it on the road?

    I've had that video Njord Noatun posted (pre 1906 SF earthquake of the trolley heading toward the Ferry Building) on my mind since he posted it. So this article is a nice companion stating the same: more confusion, speed based on people = all sorts of awesome + safety (magic word!)

    Safety analysts have known for several decades that the maximum vehicle speed at which pedestrians can escape severe injury upon impact is just under 20 miles per hour. Research also suggests that an individual's ability to interact and retain eye contact with other human beings diminishes rapidly at speeds greater than 20 miles per hour. One theory behind this magic bullet, says Hamilton-Baillie, is that 20 mph is the "maximum theoretical running speed" for human beings. (Evolutionary biologist E.O. Wilson has drawn similar conclusions.) "This is of interest," he says, "because it suggests that our physiology and psychology has evolved based around the potential maximum impact on the speed of human beings."

    The ramifications go beyond safety, says Hamilton-Baillie, to bear directly on the interplay between speed, traffic controls and vehicle capacity. Evidence from countries and cities that have introduced a design speed of 30 kilometers per hour (about 18.5 mph) -- as many of the European Union nations are doing -- shows that slower speeds improve traffic flow and reduce congestion.
    •  
      CommentAuthorbëany
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2010
     
    ^ Speaking of confusion on the roads. One of the best days to ride through Hillcrest is on Sunday morning between 9 AM and 2 PM. With the Farmers' Market open and everyone walking and riding at a snail's pace - cars are also forced to do that. Plus add the fact that half the drivers are lost and have no clue how to navigate something that is essentially a grid makes for even slower moving traffic - very people scaled. The entire 8 blocks or so surrounding the market is beautiful.

    Except for that nightmare called Washington St. And El Cajon Blvd.
  1.  
    beany:^ Speaking of confusion on the roads. One of the best days to ride through Hillcrest is on Sunday morning between 9 AM and 2 PM. With the Farmers' Market open and everyone walking and riding at a snail's pace - cars are also forced to do that. Plus add the fact that half the drivers are lost and have no clue how to navigate something that is essentially a grid makes for even slower moving traffic - very people scaled. The entire 8 blocks or so surrounding the market is beautiful.

    Except for that nightmare called Washington St. And El Cajon Blvd.


    I find this kind of traffic the most scary. Drivers who are distracted or confused do unpredictable things with their cars.
  2.  
    It is the number one reason why I dislike riding along 101 sometimes. Too many distractions, too many people darting in/out of parking spots. It can be quite trying sometimes. Not so much last time though, I was amazed how well it worked out.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKathy
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2010 edited
     
    Friday there's a hearing in LA on the National Transportation Bill. I'll be attending, and there will be a group outside agitating about bicycling. come on up!!

    Cyclist Demonstration at USDOT Hearing on National Transportation Bill
    ACTION

    Ride to the USDOT Hearing on National Transportation Bill

    When: Friday, February 19th, 8:15 am
    Where: Meet at Union Station - Patasouras Plaza
    Hearing at LA County Metropolitan Transportation Authority, One Gateway Plaza, Los Angeles

    The US Department of Transportation (USDOT), Ray LaHood (Director of USDOT), and Senator Barbara Boxer are having a hearing about their priorities for the National Transportation Bill, which funds all the transportation projects in the U.S. They will only have ONE California-wide meeting, right here in Los Angeles!

    We as cyclists need to take this opportunity to show that we want more funding and prioritization of bicycle, pedestrian and non-auto projects. Please join us in a rally of support for bicycle prioritization in the next National Transportation Bill!

    We'll be providing some signs, but feel free to make your own. Here are some proposed concepts:

    No More Money for Highways, More Money for Bikes/Peds
    More Money for Bikes/Peds = Cleaner Air and Water
    We Want our Kids to Be Healthy - More $ For Bikes/Ped
    Prioritize People Not Cars

    Please RSVP:www.facebook.com or email lacbcRSVP@gmail.com
    • CommentAuthorSerge
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2010
     
    Moderator, please move this to the videos thread if you think it's more appropriate there. I just thought it fit better here since it's clearly an advocacy topic.

    Strict Liability

    My thoughts:

    The reason always cited for why motorists should be at fault by default is because they are the ones operating the particularly deadly machinery and so should be the ones legally responsible for anyone who is injured by that machinery (unless it is completely out of their control).

    Many believe that too many motorists are not sufficiently aware of, or concerned with, the potential threat to others the activity of driving a motor vehicle poses, so they do not drive their vehicles accordingly (with sufficient care). These same people also believe that a strict liability law would probably go a long ways towards helping remedy the lack of concern/care issue.

    Personally, I don't know how much of the problem of car crashes stems from a lack of concern/care on the part of the motorists, and how much of that would even be addressed by such a law. But I don't see a major downside, either, except maybe unfairness to a motorist who, say, hits a red-light running bicyclist.

    There definitely does seem to be a prevalent mentality in the U.S. culture that the roads are primarily for people to get around in their cars, and everybody else needs to use the roads at their peril.

    Maybe strict liability is worth a try. It might even embolden more cyclists to be less fearful about driving their bikes instead of cowering in fear at the road edge.

    Imagine if, say, Oregon, passed such a law. When you rented a car on your next trip to Portland, do you think knowing they had a strict liability law would affect your driving?
    •  
      CommentAuthorbëany
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2010 edited
     
    I say "thank you" and then smile gratefully to any driver who is waiting for me to ride by before opening the door to their car.
    •  
      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2010
     
    Breaking lurk mode: Important: Bike racks: where you want them (with in reason): Another victory by the SDCBC for Cyclist.
    [[_linker_]]
    • CommentAuthorbikingbill
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2010
     
    This seems relevant. San Diego Drivers just don't like "sharing the road."

    Freeway messages stir outrage in some drivers
    Sign of trouble: Request to share the road with motorcyclists

    A message appearing on electronic freeway signs around the county in the past week wasn’t supposed to cause road rage.

    To the state agencies that posted the message, its suggestion “Share the road. Look twice for motorcyclists” seemed helpful, especially with spring weather bringing out more bikers.

    Some drivers apparently saw red.

    “None of the calls we’ve gotten have been positive,” said Edward Cartagena, spokesman for the San Diego Caltrans office. “One call was a 20-minute rant.”

    About a dozen callers angrily complained that it wasn’t their job to watch out for motorcyclists who speed, double up in lanes with cars or otherwise ride aggressively.

    “Wow, I didn’t know there was a sentiment like that out there on the roadways,” Cartagena said.
    .....
    :face-sad:
  3.  
    I think the bigger issue is the problem when people on motorcycles "split" lanes at 80mph, or passing over double lines, or cutting others off to cut in front of the line at lights/signs (and I mean cutting off, not just "filtering"). I have issue with the signs only being specific to motorcycles. Yes, they are on freeways only, but LOOK TWICE FOR BICYCLISTS TOO! I mostly saw it as still being very much auto-centric. I'll gladly look for motorcycles, but it is difficult when they are in places they shouldn't be. Safety isn't one sided. It takes two to crash.
    • CommentAuthorSerge
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2010
     
    That's really interesting about the animosity for motorcyclists because that obviously has nothing to do with them being slow and in the way. What seems to anger them is the lack of predictability, and "aggressive" riding. By "double up with cars" I assume they mean lane splitting, probably at 70 mph in 35 mph traffic.

    I think this indicates that much of the tension with bicyclists might not necessarily be about bicyclists being slow and in the way either.

    "I'll gladly look for motorcycles, but it is difficult when they are in places they shouldn't be." - Mike

    And that applies to bicyclists too, except that where many people think bicyclists "should" be is often not where motorists are looking for traffic. So maybe it's not so much where they "shouldn't be" but where "they are not expected to be" that makes it hard to notice them, and us.
  4.  
    Serge:Strict Liability
    It appears that US laws are set up so that, if you want to kill somebody, make sure to do it in a car -- you are unlikely to receive any real penalty beyond a slap on the wrist at the worst. Only a few years ago, a car plowed into a family crossing the street in Chula Vista in a marked pedestrian crossing, killing two children: The driver was not even cited on grounds that he might have been blinded by the afternoon sun and could therefore not reasonably be expected to have seen the peds. With laws like that one cannot expect that non-motorist road users will be anything but pariahs.

    The movie from the Netherlands explained the principle of strict liability quite poorly, I thought, but ended with stating that about half a dozen European countries carry such statutory liability principles for motorists. Norway has such statutory liability for motorists, according to which liability can be determined regardless of fault. By the Norwegian vehicle code law it follows that you are responsible for damage that one's own car makes, regardless of whether someone can be blamed for the damage.

    If you as a driver hit a ped or a cyclist you are therefore in deep trouble. As a consequence, cyclists are treated with respect and peds only need to make one step towards the curb for all traffic to come to a sudden halt. I have no doubt that this is a highly effective system for reducing aggression and inattentiveness in motorists, and to elevate the position of "vulnerable" road users.
    • CommentAuthorSerge
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2010
     
    I agree that the video is not very good at explaining the concept, but I think most of us get the gist of it. It's certainly caused me to rethink my position about it, and my opinion has shifted. In particular, I've realized that really this is effectively putting more teeth in the basic speed law, which states,


    Basic Speed Law

    22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.


    I mean, if someone hits someone or something because they had insufficient time or space to avoid crashing, that seems like it's obviously a blatant violation of the basic speed law. If the sun is your eyes such that you can't see whether anyone's walking in the crosswalk, how about slowing down to parking lot speed? That way at least the pedestrians have a chance to see and avoid you in time.

    There is discussion about it on the Facebook group "Cyclists are Drivers!". Bob Sutterfield is concerned that it's unfair to hold someone responsible if it's not their fault, and Dan Gutierrez is concerned that cyclists who are already insufficiently careful about avoid the most common types of crashes will be emboldened to be even more careless if they know the motorist is always liable. This is how I addressed their concerns.

    Bob, I think the idea is that if a driver is driving a (heavy, deadly) vehicle and his sight lines are limited, he should notice that and adjust his attention and speed accordingly... in this case (at 00:20) that would have to be almost a crawl. Really, this is just holding motorists to adhering to the basic speed law especially seriously because of the much more serious damage they are likely to cause when violating it.

    That is, if you hit someone while in motion, you're almost certainly in violation of the basic speed law, because if you had been driving slow enough for conditions, you would have had enough time and space to notice what would be a potential crash and stop in time, by definition.

    Dan, I agree bicyclists are not fearful enough of common crash modes, but that's mostly because they're ignorant about what they are. I mean, most couldn't get much less fearful in that respect because they're effectively fearless already (ignorance is bliss) - and then shocked and horrified when they're nearly hit. So I don't think much more damage could be done in that area. It's like saying to not raise the temperature from 70F to 80F because that will melt the ice - it doesn't matter because all the ice is already melted. They already have no idea to look back and adjust against right hooks, etc. So while that is a downside in theory, I don't think it can be very significant in practice, because it just couldn't get much worse in terms of most cyclists being oblivious about, and thus fearless towards, most common crash modes.
  5.  
    bikingbill:This seems relevant. San Diego Drivers just don't like "sharing the road."

    Freeway messages stir outrage in some drivers
    Sign of trouble: Request to share the road with motorcyclists


    Thanks for posting this. I saw it at the front page while I was at the Nautical Bean in Oceanside. It's a very touchy subject but I like the "Look Twice for Motorcyclists."
    The sign could have applied to bicycles: "Look Twice for Bicyclists!"

    Maybe it's been a long time since you've taken a written driving exam or read the driving manual, a car driver is required to LOOK TWICE before changing lanes. I'll try to find the exact wording.


    Some exerpts....
    Carlsbad resident Elaine Cosbey said the problem is drivers who don’t want to share the road with motorcycles. “Everyone has a right to the highway,” she said. “A lot of (motorcyclists) get killed because drivers in cars don’t have enough respect for them.”

    Considering that some drivers wish they didn’t have to share the road with motorcyclists who weave between lanes or cut ahead in traffic, the message could be tweaked, he said.

    “It might be better to lose the ‘share’ and just stick with the ‘look twice for motorcyclists,’ ” Meads said.

    Motorcyclists said they welcomed the campaign because they’re vulnerable on the road with inattentive drivers chatting on cell phones, adjusting radios or switching lanes without watching for smaller vehicles.

    “Motorcyclists are much less distracted than drivers,” he said. “Riding a motorcycle is very fundamental. You’re on two wheels, riding down the road.

    “I like what Caltrans is doing. If it gets through to one person, it’s done its job.”

    Kevin Dotson, who drives both a motorcycle and a truck, welcomed the signs as a reminder that drivers should indeed look twice.

    “People don’t see motorcycles,” he said. “Even I don’t sometimes. There have been times when I’ve been changing lanes in my truck and I didn’t see a motorcycle because it’s small and in my blind spot.”
  6.  
    Motorcycles and bicycles don't share as much as most seem to think. They are similarly sized, and can be tough to spot. That is about where it ends. They are motor vehicles just the same as automobiles. While it varies where we can bicycle on sidewalks, they cannot. We have bike lanes, they cannot drive in them, nor "split" that lane. There are many obvious differences beyond those, mostly due to their engine. My reference to being where they are supposed to be includes passing between cars at very high rates of speed. This is far different than me riding along slow or parked cars in traffic. It is a similar event, but vastly different in most other ways. So, comparing motorcycles (as in motor vehicles) to bicycles just doesn't hold well for me. When I see a motorcycle parked on the sidewalk, I call it in to have it ticketed and removed. After all, if they can park their motor vehicles on the sidewalk, why can't I? I mean, in order to have parked there, you had to have driven there too right?
    • CommentAuthorbilld
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010
     
    Serge:That's really interesting about the animosity for motorcyclists because that obviously has nothing to do with them being slow and in the way. What seems to anger them is the lack of predictability, and "aggressive" riding. By "double up with cars" I assume they mean lane splitting, probably at 70 mph in 35 mph traffic.
    Or maybe it's just because they are "different".

    Even when lane splitting is done safely, like when the motorcycles are going 5-10mph when traffic is stop-and-go, people get pissed off because the motorcycles get to go while they are stuck. It doesn't really matter to them that the motorcycles moving doesn't actually slow them down. They are merely angry that someone else gets to go while they are stuck.

    I've had vehicles move to block me from going around on my bicycle. With traffic backed up on San Diego Ave through old town one time I had one guy move left to block me and when I responded by moving right, he went right. Luckily I was going slow so there was no danger but it was deliberately hostile. Me going past him would have zero effect on his progress but he couldn't stand the idea of me being allowed to move when he couldn't. He used what little gap he had trying to move left and right to stop me. I had a similar incident with a USD parking shuttle, also in old town. The shuttle driver actually drove up onto the sidewalk on Juan street to block me.
    I think this indicates that much of the tension with bicyclists might not necessarily be about bicyclists being slow and in the way either.
    Absolutely, though I already believed that.
  7.  
    Serge:It's certainly caused me to rethink my position about it, and my opinion has shifted. In particular, I've realized that really this is effectively putting more teeth in the basic speed law
    There is already one area of the US interpretation of the vehicle law that is similar to the principles of "strict liability" - rear end collisions between cars:

    If you, as a motorist, rear end another car, you are pretty much always going to be deemed legally "at fault": Even if the guy you hit did something that contributed to the accident - slowed down unnecessarily, failed to use his brake or turn signals -- you will likely be at fault, by default: Slippery roadway, poor sight lines, poor visibility - it really does not matter; if you rear-end somebody, you are at fault!

    This principle is no doubt set up to make it easy for insurance companies to quickly settle claims for this most common type of auto-on-auto accident: No drawn out and expensive deliberations about who was the "most" at fault. The fault is allocated more or less automatically.

    So, we already have the principle of "strict liability" in the interpretation of our vehicle code -- so why not extend it to motorists when colliding with peds and cyclists!

    Clearly, the flip side of this equation would have to be that cyclists would be required to fully adhere to the vehicle code and also expect to have the vehicle code fully enforced as though driving a car.
    •  
      CommentAuthorray333
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2010
     
    For years I thought that the animosity directed against bicyclists was due primarily to the perception by U.S. automobile drivers that bicycles were holding up and delaying traffic by being "in the way." After reading the article on the CarTrance freeway signs and the venomous and bigoted comments that followed it, I came to the conclusion that drivers in this country have a similar prejudice against motorcyclists and that this hostility is not based on the perception that motorcyclists are "in the way" or "holding up traffic." Both motorcyclists and bicyclists are apparently similarly reviled by car drivers for other reasons. This gives rise to several questions: Is it because they are both perceived as defenseless minorities and because society does not yet condemn violent actions against them by the majority as it has come to do in response to attacks on other minorities? Or is it because both bicycles and motorcycles represent freedom of movement that drivers of cars envy? Or is it simply human nature to be suspicious of and hostile to those who fail to conform to the behavioral code of the majority? And why does this appear to be a phenomenon common only to drivers in the U.S? It is certainly an interesting sociological topic. Perhaps one could use it as the basis for an academic dissertation.
  8.  
    Update to the Red Zones at Howard / Alabama - They are painted! Hopefully, it will be at least a little safer at this intersection.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKathy
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2010
     
    mike_ballard:Update to the Red Zones at Howard / Alabama - They are painted! Hopefully, it will be at least a little safer at this intersection.

    good work Mike!!
  9.  
    For what little it is worth, the "intersection ahead" sign is now up at Russ Blvd / Park Blvd. This is what they said they'd do the first time I complained about that intersection. Doesn't really do a darn thing though. It is a start.
    •  
      CommentAuthoril Pirati
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2010
     
    .

    I went to Boarders to browse, and looked for Jeff Mapes' book Pedaling Revolution. Their computer told me that it wasn't in stock, but I could find books like it in Sports: Cycling. A book dedicated to the advancement of the bicycle as a means of transport is relegated to the Sports section. Their Transportation section was all planes, trains, automobiles, and motorcycles.

    I thought this anecdote sumed up our struggle nicely.
  10.  
    I don't consider bicycling a "sport" for me any more than I do when driving. It is transportation. Maybe that is why I don't follow the sporting end of it that much, keeps cycling in that "sport" realm for too many people. And why would you want the taxpayer to spend millions of dollars to further your sport?
    •  
      CommentAuthorbëany
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2010 edited
     
    A Beginner’s Guide to Affecting Municipal Laws in the City of San Diego

    Use letters, phone calls, and informal petitions

    Remember that most City ordinances and resolutions require a simple majority of Council votes–5 out of 8–to be adopted. Get the ball rolling by calling or writing a letter to your Councilmember, and to the Mayor. If you want to show you have lots of community support, develop and submit an informal petition, or have others call or send letters. With the backing of five (5) Councilmembers, your idea can become municipal policy.


    Mayor's email: jerrysanders@sandiego.gov

    Re: the Kearny Villa Rd issue I wrote this to the Mayor and will be emailing it to all the District Council Members. If you would like to make suggestions to edit it or phrase it better, feel free to do so and post the edits below:

    Dear Mayor Sanders:

    I'm sure you read the UT's article on how dangerous Kearny Villa Road
    is for cyclists:
    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/feb/24/kearny-villa-road-bike-path-is-a-serious-danger/

    I would like you to please look into why the city is taking so long to resurface the bike lane along Kearny Villa Road. Furthermore, the southbound on ramp to the 163 is extremely dangerous for non-motorized users to cross. I would like to see some speed bumps placed before the entrance to the on-ramp to slow down the habitual speeders before
    another cyclists is injured or killed.

    San Diego is such a beautiful city to ride in the entire year, but it is so disappointing that the city cares so little for the non-motorized residents of the city. Many cities are finally realizing what a liability catering solely to the auto users is turning out to be. For inspiration, I strongly recommending watching (along with your staff and the City Council) the documentary, Beyond the Motor City:
    http://www.pbs.org/wnet/blueprintamerica/reports/beyond-the-motor-city/video/939/

    Sincerely,
    (me)
    •  
      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2010
     
    <blockquote><cite> mike_ballard:</cite> And why would you want the taxpayer to spend millions of dollars to further your sport?</blockquote>

    I don't know, if the city were to take an interest in cycling as a "sport" ~ the side benefit of a lot of people begining to just ride, sport or otherwise, would be good. Then, they'd want to support other aspects of cycling. I mean we funded the stadium, and there's plenty of county parks with fields for soccer, football, baseball... Perhaps if the city was interested in cycling as a sport, and saw the potential dollar signs, the side benefit is we'd get more response to problems cyclist have. It'd be cool to have a world class velodrom like LA has.
  11.  
    But as a "sport" it wouldn't be considered transportation, and would be subjugated to trails and "recreational" venues. There is a difference, a distinct difference. As a "sport", you might get more trails, which may or may not be useful for transportation (slow, numerous driveways, unnecessary stop signs). I don't ride in a City or County park to get to work. If you want a good example of this, look to Santa Clarita, their trail system, and how bicycles are dealt with on the roadways. Would you really want an eight lane roadway with no shoulder and a trail adjacent with driveways and streets intersecting frequently?
    •  
      CommentAuthorray333
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2010
     
    Even Steve Meiche, the one man band behind the now defunct Southern California Velodrome Association, couldn't get municipal funding for the L.A. Velodrome that replaced the outdoor 333.3 meter Olympic Velodrome at Cal State Dominguez Hills. The new track was paid for with private money: Home Depot, ADT, Anschutz Group, AEG all contributed. It's not impossible, but the same thing could happen here with the right sponsorship. Campagnolo USA has already expressed an interest in sponsoring track racing in San Diego, in spite of what certain members of the SDVA Board of Directors would have the public think. Campagnolo was told that we didn't want their money! This is because a world-class venue would threaten the entrenched "boys' club" that runs our track for their own personal enjoyment, rather than for the good of the greater cycling community at large as well as future generations of cyclists. Steve was by far and away a more effective manager of the track than any committee, and he ran both San Diego and Dominguez Hills single handedly.
    •  
      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2010
     
    Perhaps I'm overly optimistic; perhaps I just want to try to think we can all get past our individual agenda's of what's important to us, just enough that we all work for some common good. You know, just work together. But, sometimes I hope in the face of negative, and sometimes I push back against the "can't be done because of...".

    Might be wrong, but, just me. Didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest.
    •  
      CommentAuthorbëany
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2010
     
    Keep forgetting to post this but...

    My caboose is a very nice caboose. He bought a 2 foot long (or thereabouts) broom that he takes with him to work. On his commute, he sweeps all the glass he sees strewn in his path. So brooms continue to provide magic in the modern day.
  12.  
    The Robinson Ave bridge over SR-163 has too many palm fronds on the south side. I think I'll just remove them next time I get the chance, keeping with the theme and what I've already done.
    •  
      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeFeb 25th 2010
     
    <blockquote><cite> beany:</cite>Keep forgetting to post this but...

    My caboose is a very nice caboose. He bought a 2 foot long (or thereabouts) broom that he takes with him to work. On his commute, he sweeps all the glass he sees strewn in his path. So brooms continue to provide magic in the modern day.</blockquote>

    Advocacy at it's finest right there. Fixing things you can, one day at a time.

    I should say, when I read that the first time, I thought it said "My caboose has a very nice caboose." Which made the whole broom thing, a little wierd.
  13.  
    I copied your e-mail and sent it in through my work e-mail to the Mayor as well.
    •  
      CommentAuthorbëany
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2010 edited
     
    I sent my email from above re: KVH to all council members, mayor, bicycle coordinator at the city and everyone else I could think of.

    Nearly everyone (except Mayor's office) sent me a response. Most promised to watch the Detroit documentary. Few people said, "not my district go tell this to: Frye/Emerald."

    I also am trying to get this on the city council agenda and plan on giving a lecture when the time comes, "this is an outrage/I can't believe this/etc/etc"

    This nonsense about not having money is nonsense.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKathy
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2010
     
    There is money, and it's already allocated to Kearny Villa Road. The City just needs to get their butts in gear to get it spent.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKathy
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2010
     
    If you all are interested, City Council does have 'public comment' period at council meetings on Tuesdays starting at 10 a.m. (usually). You don't need to wait for someone to schedule it on the agenda - you can go yell at them every week if you want. I wouldn't recommend it every week, though, becuase they'll stop taking you seriously after a couple of weeks. :-)