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Serge:
I totally agree with you about the effect of that rail trail here. I just got lambasted on the sdcbc list for saying that facilities often imply that bicyclists don't belong in the street. I think that's the effect they often have, and it was manifested on this stretch of 101 first by them not creating any bike lanes at all, and then, when bicyclists protested, these narrow(er) ones were put in. But the notion implied by the "multi use" path parallel to the road remain: that that is where bicyclists should ride.
So, you were in the bike lane, not controlling a traffic lane, when you were still hit from behind. I'm curious by this since you were the one who said "a facilities advocate is a vehicular cyclist who was hit yesterday".
I suppose you can blame it on the narrowness of the bike lane, rather than on the bike lane itself, but if the bike lane was wider, you would probably still have been riding near the stripe (we all tend to ride there because debris usually makes all but the pavement near the stripe undesirable), no? If you had noticed him coming in a mirror you might have been able to dodge in a wider bike lane, but most cyclists don't have mirrors, and most who do probably don't monitor often enough to do that. In other words, the bike lane doesn't really protect you (my theory is it makes you more likely to get hit, because the stripe creates a false sense of security, and makes bicyclists seem irrelevant to motorists who are then more likely to not notice them and thus drift into them). I read and hear about bicyclists hit in bike lanes all the time (glad you're alive to talk about your case); this is why I don't get why bicyclists seem to want bike lanes so much. Riding in a bike lane is effectively donning a cloak of invisibility and riding on a debris magnet. And that debris can be deadly. A cyclist was killed about two years ago on Torrey Pines Rd. when he hit a branch in the bike lane that popped into his front wheel, locked it up, and he went over the bars. His riding buddy estimates their speed was about 15 mph, and he had a helmet on. I much prefer the motorist-swept-clean pavement in the traffic lanes where I'm more visible, thank you very much.
bikingbill:
Either have a standard bike lane or don't.
Irvine, CA has bike lanes done right. About the width of a narrow car lane.
bikingbill:
The problem with La Costa is the lane implies to drivers that they can drive next to it. It's simply not wide enough. The 'drop off' to the curbstone is too risky to ride in.
Sharrows would be more appropriate.
I've asked this question on the SDBC list with no response ... would we prefer the current situation or something akin to Copenhagen?
bikingbill:FYI: My new technique on La Costa Ave is to make it clear that my bike is NOT in the bike lane at all times. Ride to the left of it and only move to the right when a vehicle is close. Get more room that way.
I'd rather the lane be removed at this point.
bikingbill:
Well, what about La Costa?
Kathy:bikingbill:
Well, what about La Costa?
La Costa is a pretty long road - which part of La Costa? I'm happy to go take a look with my tape measure... or maybe you have measured them? It's hard to get good numbers from Google Earth, but so far I'm only seeing 5 foot lanes.
bikingbill:markphilips:bikingbill:I think drivers are getting used to me taking the lane on the Alga Rd. (Carlsbad) downhill. No one seems to mind anymore.
Great job in conditioning drivers in your neighborhood. They may have seen you enough times to notice that their are cyclists using this road.
The bike is distinctive enough to be memorable and my speed is above 40 on that section. It's too fast for the bike lane.
The grade is 11%-12% at the steepest. You can pick up considerable speed if you're crazy enough.
bikingbill: Eastbound ... sections between I5 and El Camino.
Section I was hit on was just East of Saxony.
NOT 5 foot wide. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe 2 feet of asphalt and then a 1 foot curbstone with a nice drop.
Kathy:bikingbill: Eastbound ... sections between I5 and El Camino.
Section I was hit on was just East of Saxony.
NOT 5 foot wide. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe 2 feet of asphalt and then a 1 foot curbstone with a nice drop.
I went out this morning with my trusty tape measure. There's clearly some spots where the asphalt is less than 3 feet wide - mostly where the drain grates are, and at the intersections (especially at El Camino Real) where they tried to squeeze in some extra lanes. Most of it on the eastbound side is 3 feet of clear asphalt, which is just barely the minimum to meet the standard. I'll definitely agree that the City of Carlsbad did the barest minimum they could to retain the bike lanes. They should have made them wider. I'm trying to figure out what to do with it next. there are rumors the street would be widened to accommodate impacts from the Ponto development, but I can't find the specific notation in the Ponto plans yet. I'll keep looking.
jay:
There's only one dangerous thing happening on the roads, and it's not bicycling.
Non-dangerous-to-others road users, such as bicyclists and pedestrians, are not obligated to follow any technical practices to avoid death caused by dangrerous-to-others road users.
Serge: Let's not forget that typical bicyclist speeds also create hazardous conditions. Bicyclists are seriously injured and even sometimes killed in crashes with others on bike paths. Traffic rules were not created for automobiles, for they were created before automobiles existed.
While it's true that most of the traffic out there happens to be comprised of automobiles today, we would still need these rules, and follow them, if it was all bikes, pedestrians and horses again.
Also, we have the rules to engender efficiency at least as much as safety. Embrace the rules of the road, they're a good thing, in a world with or without motorized vehicles.
William Phelps Eno (1858-1945) was an American businessman responsible for many of the earliest innovations in road safety and traffic control. He is sometimes known as the "Father of traffic safety", despite never having learned to drive a car himself.
He graduated from Yale University in 1882, where he had been a member of Skull and Bones.
Though automobiles were rare until Eno was an older man, horse-drawn carriages were already causing significant traffic problems in urban areas like Eno's home town of New York City. In 1900, he wrote a piece on traffic safety entitled Reform in Our Street Traffic Urgently Needed. In 1903, he wrote a city traffic code for New York, the first such code in the world. He designed traffic plans for New York, London, and Paris.
Among the innovations credited to Eno are the stop sign, the pedestrian crosswalk, the traffic circle, the one-way street, the taxi stand, and pedestrian safety islands.
Is cycling dangerous? Yes. Yes, it is. Deadly, no, but definitely dangerous. This is actually a controversial thing to say. There are those who bristle at any suggestion that cycling is dangerous, because they fear it will scare noncyclists away from ever ditching their cars and trying a more healthy form of transport. This is a good point, but it doesn’t change the fact that cycling is dangerous. This is not some urban legend that needs to be debunked. It is reality, and we need to embrace it (page 69).
...
The most important lesson to be learned here is a bitter pill to swallow: There is no greater danger to the cyclist than the cyclist’s own incompetence. As a whole, it turns out, cyclists are not an entirely smooth and skillful lot. The majority of cycling accidents are embarrassing solo incidents, with the cyclist sliding out on turns, stacking it up after ramming potholes, curbs, and other obstacles, or just generally losing control (page 161, emphasis in original).
http://district5diary.blogspot.com/2005/02/your-mission-chump-ride-bike-in-city.html
Collisions with motor vehicles are potentially more damaging but account for no more than about 15 percent of all cycling accidents. About half of car-bike accidents are instigated by cyclists who ride into traffic without looking, ride on the wrong side of the street, blow lights and stop signs, or otherwise ride in an unpredictable and lawless manner. This means that about half of car-bike collisions could be prevented if cyclists would simply follow traditional traffic-law principles. Most of the rest could likely be prevented with a little experience, preparedness, and respect for the perils of the road. Admitting it is the first step toward moving beyond it. That surly looking character in your bathroom mirror is often your worst enemy out on the street (page 161).
Safety analysts have known for several decades that the maximum vehicle speed at which pedestrians can escape severe injury upon impact is just under 20 miles per hour. Research also suggests that an individual's ability to interact and retain eye contact with other human beings diminishes rapidly at speeds greater than 20 miles per hour. One theory behind this magic bullet, says Hamilton-Baillie, is that 20 mph is the "maximum theoretical running speed" for human beings. (Evolutionary biologist E.O. Wilson has drawn similar conclusions.) "This is of interest," he says, "because it suggests that our physiology and psychology has evolved based around the potential maximum impact on the speed of human beings."
The ramifications go beyond safety, says Hamilton-Baillie, to bear directly on the interplay between speed, traffic controls and vehicle capacity. Evidence from countries and cities that have introduced a design speed of 30 kilometers per hour (about 18.5 mph) -- as many of the European Union nations are doing -- shows that slower speeds improve traffic flow and reduce congestion.
beany:^ Speaking of confusion on the roads. One of the best days to ride through Hillcrest is on Sunday morning between 9 AM and 2 PM. With the Farmers' Market open and everyone walking and riding at a snail's pace - cars are also forced to do that. Plus add the fact that half the drivers are lost and have no clue how to navigate something that is essentially a grid makes for even slower moving traffic - very people scaled. The entire 8 blocks or so surrounding the market is beautiful.
Except for that nightmare called Washington St. And El Cajon Blvd.
Serge:Strict LiabilityIt appears that US laws are set up so that, if you want to kill somebody, make sure to do it in a car -- you are unlikely to receive any real penalty beyond a slap on the wrist at the worst. Only a few years ago, a car plowed into a family crossing the street in Chula Vista in a marked pedestrian crossing, killing two children: The driver was not even cited on grounds that he might have been blinded by the afternoon sun and could therefore not reasonably be expected to have seen the peds. With laws like that one cannot expect that non-motorist road users will be anything but pariahs.
Basic Speed Law
22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.
Bob, I think the idea is that if a driver is driving a (heavy, deadly) vehicle and his sight lines are limited, he should notice that and adjust his attention and speed accordingly... in this case (at 00:20) that would have to be almost a crawl. Really, this is just holding motorists to adhering to the basic speed law especially seriously because of the much more serious damage they are likely to cause when violating it.
That is, if you hit someone while in motion, you're almost certainly in violation of the basic speed law, because if you had been driving slow enough for conditions, you would have had enough time and space to notice what would be a potential crash and stop in time, by definition.
Dan, I agree bicyclists are not fearful enough of common crash modes, but that's mostly because they're ignorant about what they are. I mean, most couldn't get much less fearful in that respect because they're effectively fearless already (ignorance is bliss) - and then shocked and horrified when they're nearly hit. So I don't think much more damage could be done in that area. It's like saying to not raise the temperature from 70F to 80F because that will melt the ice - it doesn't matter because all the ice is already melted. They already have no idea to look back and adjust against right hooks, etc. So while that is a downside in theory, I don't think it can be very significant in practice, because it just couldn't get much worse in terms of most cyclists being oblivious about, and thus fearless towards, most common crash modes.
bikingbill:This seems relevant. San Diego Drivers just don't like "sharing the road."
Freeway messages stir outrage in some drivers
Sign of trouble: Request to share the road with motorcyclists
Some exerpts....
Carlsbad resident Elaine Cosbey said the problem is drivers who don’t want to share the road with motorcycles. “Everyone has a right to the highway,” she said. “A lot of (motorcyclists) get killed because drivers in cars don’t have enough respect for them.”
Considering that some drivers wish they didn’t have to share the road with motorcyclists who weave between lanes or cut ahead in traffic, the message could be tweaked, he said.
“It might be better to lose the ‘share’ and just stick with the ‘look twice for motorcyclists,’ ” Meads said.
Motorcyclists said they welcomed the campaign because they’re vulnerable on the road with inattentive drivers chatting on cell phones, adjusting radios or switching lanes without watching for smaller vehicles.
“Motorcyclists are much less distracted than drivers,” he said. “Riding a motorcycle is very fundamental. You’re on two wheels, riding down the road.
“I like what Caltrans is doing. If it gets through to one person, it’s done its job.”
Kevin Dotson, who drives both a motorcycle and a truck, welcomed the signs as a reminder that drivers should indeed look twice.
“People don’t see motorcycles,” he said. “Even I don’t sometimes. There have been times when I’ve been changing lanes in my truck and I didn’t see a motorcycle because it’s small and in my blind spot.”
Serge:That's really interesting about the animosity for motorcyclists because that obviously has nothing to do with them being slow and in the way. What seems to anger them is the lack of predictability, and "aggressive" riding. By "double up with cars" I assume they mean lane splitting, probably at 70 mph in 35 mph traffic.Or maybe it's just because they are "different".
I think this indicates that much of the tension with bicyclists might not necessarily be about bicyclists being slow and in the way either.Absolutely, though I already believed that.
Serge:It's certainly caused me to rethink my position about it, and my opinion has shifted. In particular, I've realized that really this is effectively putting more teeth in the basic speed lawThere is already one area of the US interpretation of the vehicle law that is similar to the principles of "strict liability" - rear end collisions between cars:
mike_ballard:Update to the Red Zones at Howard / Alabama - They are painted! Hopefully, it will be at least a little safer at this intersection.
Use letters, phone calls, and informal petitions
Remember that most City ordinances and resolutions require a simple majority of Council votes–5 out of 8–to be adopted. Get the ball rolling by calling or writing a letter to your Councilmember, and to the Mayor. If you want to show you have lots of community support, develop and submit an informal petition, or have others call or send letters. With the backing of five (5) Councilmembers, your idea can become municipal policy.