And just as soon as I can do all that without fear, in front of the police, I'll be quite happy! Without that, I'd still take the lane and ride pretty much the same way through there (I think I did the couple of times I have gone that way). Yes, confrontations don't make the riding very fun. I've ended a ride when things just weren't going right.

jay:Actually, my nomination for a difficult place to ride is Pacific Highway, on the bridge between the CHP station and E Mission Bay Drive.

Absolutely!

On that bridge -- which, of course, is a signed bike route -- the sidewalk curb is crazy high; in excess of 12", for sure, going south: My nightmare is to accidentally get too close to the curb (or get squeezed into it) and have the pedal catch on the curb: The "sidewalk" here is less than 2' wide, and the overpass railing not much more than 2' tall - one could easily be catapulted over the railing and onto the middle lanes of I-5 below: You get the gist of it here. [/shudder]

Not very likely perhaps, but I can easily envisage it happening - especially when I ride that section!

Serge:

jay:Actually, my nomination for a difficult place to ride is Pacific Highway, on the bridge between the CHP station and E Mission Bay Drive.

The bike lane ends right before the bridge. The bridge is too narrow for a car traveling ~60mph (which is pretty typical) to safely pass a bike with them both being in the lane, which leads me to take the lane. But a car coming up at 60+mph behind a bike traveling 8ish mph gets pretty freaked out. Just ask the guys who stopped at the light afterward, got out of their car, and screamed epithets at me when I got there.

I like violent confrontation as much as the next guy, it's an energizing rush and all, but at some point it detracts from enjoying the ride. It really makes me wish for a lot more chaos on the roads, so that no driver would ever expect the freedom to travel unfettered at high speeds without interruption. I'd like to give everybody rickety electric trikes with a top speed of 15 mph and turn em loose.

Do you mean here?

I've only ridden there on weekends, but that's a place I use the left tire track position since the road curves to the right, so those approaching from behind notice me sooner rather than later. I've done that even with my daughter in tow on the trailercycle.

Whenever I try to "control" the lane from too far right, like the right tire track, then I notice in my mirror that those approaching from behind are likely to notice me later rather than sooner, and realize later rather than sooner that they need to slow down because there is not enough room to pass, which causes aggravation. On the other hand, by riding far left, they slow down to my speed early on with plenty of time and space to do it safely, and thank me with waves, nods and smiles when I move aside for them (I don't mind a close pass when it's slow and controlled).

Serge

Yes, I think that's the place judging from Google, but I particularly am thinking of heading westbound where traffic is going faster.

I too take the left tire position, and happily move over to let cars pass closely at controlled speed. However the only waves I've gotten so far involve an extended finger. I can only presume you are better looking than I am.

<blockquote><cite> jay:</cite><blockquote><cite> Serge:</cite><blockquote><cite> jay:</cite>Actually, my nomination for a difficult place to ride is Pacific Highway, on the bridge between the CHP station and E Mission Bay Drive. The bike lane ends right before the bridge. The bridge is too narrow for a car traveling ~60mph (which is pretty typical) to safely pass a bike with them both being in the lane, which leads me to take the lane. But a car coming up at 60+mph behind a bike traveling 8ish mph gets pretty freaked out. Just ask the guys who stopped at the light afterward, got out of their car, and screamed epithets at me when I got there. I like violent confrontation as much as the next guy, it's an energizing rush and all, but at some point it detracts from enjoying the ride. It really makes me wish for a lot more chaos on the roads, so that no driver would ever expect the freedom to travel unfettered at high speeds without interruption. I'd like to give everybody rickety electric trikes with a top speed of 15 mph and turn em loose.</blockquote> Do you mean <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=pacific&sll=32.764254,-117.208886&sspn=0.014796,0.035706&ie=UTF8&radius=1.04&rq=1&ev=p&hq=pacific&hnear=&ll=32.766455,-117.20614&spn=0,359.964294&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=32.766471,-117.20613&panoid=0PQf0tfoJNeC7GjK2g8AtA&cbp=12,119.54,,0,19.34">here</a>? I've only ridden there on weekends, but that's a place I use the left tire track position since the road curves to the right, so those approaching from behind notice me sooner rather than later. I've done that even with my daughter in tow on the trailercycle. Whenever I try to "control" the lane from too far right, like the right tire track, then I notice in my mirror that those approaching from behind are likely to notice me later rather than sooner, and realize later rather than sooner that they need to slow down because there is not enough room to pass, which causes aggravation. On the other hand, by riding far left, they slow down to my speed early on with plenty of time and space to do it safely, and thank me with waves, nods and smiles when I move aside for them (I don't mind a close pass when it's slow and controlled). Serge</blockquote> Yes, I think that's the place judging from Google, but I particularly am thinking of heading westbound where traffic is going faster. I too take the left tire position, and happily move over to let cars pass closely at controlled speed. However the only waves I've gotten so far involve an extended finger. I can only presume you are better looking than I am.</blockquote> LOL, that would be highly unlikely. The key for me is timing. If I notice them slowing while they are still a ways back, and move aside, obviously for them (based on the timing), they have little to be annoyed with, and much to be thankful for. However, if I wait too long to acknowledge them, then they get annoyed, and then it's hard to recover. Having said that, the folks in the Orlando videos (and many others) do none of the accommodating that I do. They just ride along, totally ignoring the traffic behind them.

I used to descend Torry Pines into the beach at full speed. Even took the lane on occasion. No more. Just don't trust the road surface now. On the brakes in the bike lane.

Just not as brave as I was in the 1990's.

I've ridden that section of La Costa a few times, never really liked it. I only rode it during morning commute too, which didn't help.

When I worked at the Encinitas Auto Club office, I took the train for a while, with my bicycle. Being a reverse commute, the train schedule wasn't quite working out. So, I'd end up getting there quite early. I'd ride around, usually about ten miles, before work. I rode most of the routes around there, including most of the dirt trails (I rode a mountain bike then). Eventually, none of the hills were that big a deal.

mike_ballard:When I worked at the Encinitas Auto Club office, I took the train for a while, with my bicycle. Being a reverse commute, the train schedule wasn't quite working out. So, I'd end up getting there quite early. I'd ride around, usually about ten miles, before work. I rode most of the routes around there, including most of the dirt trails (I rode a mountain bike then). Eventually, none of the hills were that big a deal.

I recall the Leucadia road from El Camino to Quail Gardens going in ... in 1999 or so. There were a few glorious weeks of no-cars allowed downhill runs ... 50 mph on one.

<blockquote><cite> ray333:</cite>Eddie B advocates riding a little farther left than might be instinctive to "herd" drivers in that direction, but always leaving a buffer to the right. As traffic approaches from behind move right into the buffer as far as is practicable just before the traffic passes. This seems to work well in his neighborhood, pick'em up truck gunrack Ramona. I use this technique whenever I'm riding on a narrow roadway with little clearance.</blockquote>
This works for many reasons, and is much easier to pull off with a mirror. In fact, with a mirror you can really milk it and ride <i>much</i> farther left than might be instinctive during gaps. In fact, after you ride that way for a while, riding far to the right no longer becomes instinctive because of all the positive feedback experienced while riding <i>much</i> further left most of the time.

Celebrating the Feast of Fabulous Wild Men Day! An all meat orgy!

50% of the proceeds will go to Matt Kelly, a long-time loyal Woodstock's employee who was hit by a semi while biking to work. His injuries are extensive, requiring long-term hospitalization & rehab, so we are raising funds to help him & his family through the recovery process.

There's been a few hit from behind accidents here in San Diego, and unfortunately, the punishment seems to be minor:
[[_linker_]]

Serge:

ray333:Absolutely! After I was bitten by the long distance unsupported touring bug in '93 I started using the Take-a-Look eyeglasses mirror. It saved me more than a few times by giving me advance warning of danger approaching from behind. It's quite useful on my commute route to Scripps Ranch, especially on Kearny Villa Rd. where the bike lane and shoulder is unridable in places and traffic, including the route 20 bus and gravel trucks, routinely drives in the marked bike lanes.

Actually, being hit from behind is so unlikely, reducing that very low chance doesn't even make my list of reasons to use a mirror. I'm going to write those reasons up and post a link to them.

I believe if you get very good at riding in traffic, say 100,000 miles of it, then getting hit from behind becomes a greater probably because you're actively avoiding the other accidents.

Situation awareness at all times is key. You should try to have a mental model of where the other vehicles are.

Gotta ask, William: what did he pull you over for?

<blockquote><cite> ray333:</cite>If being hit from behind is unlikely on Kearny Villa Rd. then the number of people to whom this has happened over the past ten years should be many more than three. Unlikely or not, I still don't like those odds. In early December a route 20 bus traveling at the speed of traffic, which often exceeds the 65 mph limit there, passed me so closely on southbound KVR at Miramar Way that the wake nearly pulled me into the right rear wheels. The driver missed me by inches and allowed the bus to drift over into the bike lane just after passing. Anyone riding directly in front of me would have been instantly vaporized. My USA Cycling motorcycle referee instructor at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs says that when one is on two wheels, if anything surprises one, then it is one's own fault for not paying close enough attention. The lesson here is that a moment's inattention due to complacency or distraction can be deadly.</blockquote>
If you're in the bike lane going 15-20 mph, and they're in the adjacent traffic lane going 65, closing at 45-50 mph, and they drift into the bike lane at the last second (which does happen, I know, and is one of the reasons I don't like bike lanes, but this type of crash is still quite rare compared to crossing conflicts), how are you going to manage to notice and avoid it? I suppose you can periodically glance in your mirror to know when the next car/truck/bus is coming so that you can time it such that you're looking, say, a second before they reach you. But then what? What if they start drifting 1/2 a second (still 35 feet back assuming a closing speed of 50 mph) before reaching you? Are you staring in the mirror the entire critical second every time you're being overtaken? Can you react quickly enough to avoid such a crash?

What I think does work is, during gaps in traffic, to ride OUTSIDE of the bike lane, well into the traffic lane, periodically monitoring for traffic with the mirror. What this does is make you much more likely to be noticed by any approaching driver because you're directly in his path rather than irrelevantly off to the side on the other side of a stripe (and thus easy to ignore and overlook). Then, as they get closer (but still a few seconds back), you are very likely to have been noticed, and so they more likely to be paying attention and much less likely to drift, so that's a good time to move aside into the bike lane. You're still using a mirror, you might reduce the chance of getting hit from behind (by increasing the chance of being noticed), but, more importantly, you're riding further from the edge of the road where your sight lines and vantage is much better for noticing and avoiding potential hazards in front of you. In heavy/busy traffic this becomes unworkable, but drifts like that are even less likely in busy traffic. It's the appearance of an empty road (possibly including an unnoticed bicyclist in the bike lane ahead) in front of a driver that makes him likely to not pay as much attention, and drift.

<blockquote><cite> thom:</cite>Gotta ask, William: what did he pull you over for?</blockquote>

Actually, in short, I ran a red.

I came to a stop, did a track stand (something I'm getting better at), and I heard a car roll up behind me to make a right turn. I pulled up a little, and I could hear it behind me agian. The light was on a timer, so I knew I wasn't going any place soon (the light changed just as I rolled up). I looked to the car on my left, made eye contact, and rolled up, but ended up rolling into the cross walk with my front tire nearly out in the lane ~ not liking this, I looked both ways and pulled across the intersection. In hindsight, I should have held out, or put a foot down.

The car behind me ~ that was the cop. :face-monkey:

He was cool about it ~ said he figured why I did what I did and said next time to just "make the cars wait"... He let it go, part of it becuase he used to be a member of the Shady 8's back in the day.

Pretty embarassing, really.

ray333:Kearny Villa Rd. southbound is so rough that I make a point of riding in the right motor traffic lane just outside the line on the new pavement. The rolling resistance there is always much less, since when the road was last resurfaced, the bike lanes and shoulders were left out. No one in District 7 has ever been willing to share with me the rationale for failing to resurface the bike lanes and shoulder at the same time the rest of the road was done.

Yikes! That is where my commute takes me. You're much braver than I. I'll take my chances in the bike lane/shoulder, but you're so right - the condition is really horrible.

<blockquote><cite> Serge:</cite>Have you tried stopping further left to leave room for right turning traffic on your right? </blockquote>

I kind of don't want to get into the whole "VC" discussion about MY cycling. When there's a right turn optional, I might. The predicate to NOT doing it is having been hit by people turning right from the non-turn lane ~ and getting up in there. It's easy to arm chair this whole thing, but each stop at a light is situational, there's not a cut and dry best way, and long and short: I did something wrong and got called on it. The was lucky enough to not be ticketed, and if I was, would have taken my lumps for it. Pretty much from the get go, I simply admitted to the guy "I was wrong, I shouldn't have." and didn't offer an excuse.

But the whole shady 8 thing had something to do with it too.

I got three of those from baufl.org, one for the car, one for the moto, and an extra. Turns out the guy in charge there knows my brother and father. We agreed that it is often a small world.

Let's make little yellow decals to paste over STATE LAW.

<blockquote><cite> Njord Noatun: </cite>

... but it would of course have been even more appropriate for CA if it, instead of "State Law", had said "CVC 21202".</blockquote>
The signs in San Francisco that credit 21202 for this reflect a common misconception about the source of cyclist road and lane rights in CA traffic law.

It's 21200, not 21202, that allows us to have full lane rights in CA. 21202 restricts those lane rights, and then relinquishes them to some degree, kind of, maybe, in some cases, depending on one's perspective and bias.

Consider that if we did not have 21202, we would only be governed (with respect to lane usage) by 21200 and the general slow moving vehicle laws, 21654 and 21656, neither of which restricts lane rights.

<blockquote><cite>21200:</cite>21200. (a) Every person riding a bicycle upon a highway <strong>has all the rights</strong> and is subject to all the provisions <strong>applicable to the driver of a vehicle</strong></blockquote>

<em>"... all the rights applicable to the driver of a vehicle"</em>... that's all we need, for that it includes lane rights.

<blockquote><cite>21202:</cite>21202. (a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except ... </blockquote>

That's not giving us rights, it's taking them away!

This area has a long and infamous history. If the problem had been fixed in 1999 when I first called about it, Larry Mahr and USMC Captain Patrick Klokow might still be alive today. Take some time to research this. Every reasonable request to make this roadway safe for cyclists and pedestrians has long been exhausted. It remains one of the most notorious death traps in the county. I tried 527-7500 in 1999 then progressed through the successive administrations of council district 7, and finally to the mayor's office. After Capt. Klokow was killed they clammed up and have refused to discuss the issue to this day. Most recently a representative from Marti Emerald's new administration of DIstrict 7 offered to make a field inspection of the area in December, but I have not yet heard back from him regarding the findings. I suspect they may be stonewalling again.

markphilips:

Does anybody know what the criminal penalties when PEDESTRIANS are killed by vehicles

The penalties for hitting a pedestrian are no different.

.

Also, check out the comments only if you want to spend your morning questioning the inherent decency of mankind.

<blockquote><cite> il Pirati:</cite>. ^^How about this quote from the article: <blockquote>Pile's attorney, Gregory Wolfe, said his client was remorseful. However, Wolfe said the crash was an accident, and he questioned whether criminal penalties were appropriate. "I have not seen one scintilla of evidence to show my guy was acting recklessly," he said. </blockquote> No evidence, except for the fender dent and the dead body!</blockquote> Is a skinned knee evidence of reckless walking? Remember, it's fair to interpret the words of an attorney from a legal lexicon in which "reckless" means <em>careless to the point of being heedless of the consequences ("grossly" negligent)</em>. <a href="http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/reckless">legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/reckless</a>